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Spoken like someone who's never tried to road trip in an EV other than a Tesla. Tesla also beats every single one of the cars you listed on range per dollar, as

Spoken like someone who's never tried to road trip in an EV other than a Tesla. Tesla also beats every single one of the cars you listed on range per dollar, as well as 0-60, handling in several cases, and actually being able to buy one in other cases (Lucid Air should be called Lucid Vapor). They all charge faster, sure. Where? I can drive two hours and reach 5 V3 superchargers. EA is notorious for chargers frequently glitching or failing altogether. CarPlay and Android Auto are nice if your built-in infotainment are awful. Tesla has excellent infotainment, so need to lose functionality by bringing in a third-party vendor. That's less of a selling point than you may think. The Kia EV6 does look absolutely marvelous, and I'm looking forward to driving one. The Taycan is a gorgeous car, and I'd like to check it out as well. Hyundai has been doing great things in the EV space, and they're some of the only cars that can match the Model 3 for WH/mile. Cool stuff. We'll see if Rawlinson can pull Lucid out of production hell, and how well the end product stands up. Point is: Tesla is being smart. They have a better product for less money than the competition, and unlike several other OEMs, they don't lose money per EV sold. Making people who are already EV owners stare at Tesla vehicles for hours is a smart move.

clouddrover 5y ago
> They all charge faster, sure. Where? Everywhere there's a 350+ kW CCS charger. Even Teslas charge faster on CCS chargers: https://insideevs.com/news/507489/tesla-model3-charging-faster-ccs2/ https://insideevs.com/news/507489/tesla-model3-charging-fast...
- simondotau 5y ago
  That data is intensely misleading, leading to false interpretations such as the one you have offered. This is just three data points retrieved from three different sources about different vehicles, different temperatures, and wildly different starting SOC. The two supercharger curves shown on that page dip early because they started from a 0% SOC. Charging between 0–10% places additional thermal strain on the battery which results in a slower overall charge rate than if you started from 10%+. There is much better data out there which demonstrates that if you keep the variables under control, superchargers and CCS2 chargers with the same peak power availability have nominally identical charge rates.
  - clouddrover 5y ago
    > That data is intensely misleading, leading to false interpretations There is no false interpretation. It's a flatter charge curve with a higher average charge rate. Similar to how the Mercedes EQS charges faster than the Model S Plaid: https://insideevs.com/news/522577/mercedes-eqs-fast-charging-analysis/ https://insideevs.com/news/522577/mercedes-eqs-fast-charging... > superchargers and CCS2 chargers with the same peak power But they don't have the same peak power. 350 kW CCS chargers are common. Some are 400 kW. No Tesla charger offers that yet. Tesla switched to CCS in Europe a long time ago. Tesla ought to switch to CCS in North America too. Cutting your customers off from easy access to an additional 4,550 CCS charging locations is not doing right by your customers: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html
    - simondotau 5y ago
      When the data is misleading, defending your interpretation of it by pointing to the same data isn't a rebuttal. There are millions of electric cars on the road. People charge these cars fairly often. If your interpretation has merit, it could be substantiated by hundreds—if not thousands—of data points. If you really want to rehabilitate your interpretation, maybe start by finding a handful of them. As for the rest of your post, you are responding to an argument I did not make and have never made. I never claimed that CCS chargers cannot be faster than Tesla chargers.
      - clouddrover 5y ago
        > If you really want to rehabilitate your interpretation I love your pomposity. Here's the Model 3 charging slower than three other cars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxcukAhIAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxcukAhIAU Even the Audi e-tron beats it. How? Flat charging curve. Should have put that Model 3 on a CCS charger.

clouddrover 5y ago

> They all charge faster, sure. Where? Everywhere there's a 350+ kW CCS charger. Even Teslas charge faster on CCS chargers: https://insideevs.com/news/507489/tesla-model3-charging-faster-ccs2/ https://insideevs.com/news/507489/tesla-model3-charging-fast...

simondotau 5y ago
That data is intensely misleading, leading to false interpretations such as the one you have offered. This is just three data points retrieved from three different sources about different vehicles, different temperatures, and wildly different starting SOC. The two supercharger curves shown on that page dip early because they started from a 0% SOC. Charging between 0–10% places additional thermal strain on the battery which results in a slower overall charge rate than if you started from 10%+. There is much better data out there which demonstrates that if you keep the variables under control, superchargers and CCS2 chargers with the same peak power availability have nominally identical charge rates.
- clouddrover 5y ago
  > That data is intensely misleading, leading to false interpretations There is no false interpretation. It's a flatter charge curve with a higher average charge rate. Similar to how the Mercedes EQS charges faster than the Model S Plaid: https://insideevs.com/news/522577/mercedes-eqs-fast-charging-analysis/ https://insideevs.com/news/522577/mercedes-eqs-fast-charging... > superchargers and CCS2 chargers with the same peak power But they don't have the same peak power. 350 kW CCS chargers are common. Some are 400 kW. No Tesla charger offers that yet. Tesla switched to CCS in Europe a long time ago. Tesla ought to switch to CCS in North America too. Cutting your customers off from easy access to an additional 4,550 CCS charging locations is not doing right by your customers: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html
  - simondotau 5y ago
    When the data is misleading, defending your interpretation of it by pointing to the same data isn't a rebuttal. There are millions of electric cars on the road. People charge these cars fairly often. If your interpretation has merit, it could be substantiated by hundreds—if not thousands—of data points. If you really want to rehabilitate your interpretation, maybe start by finding a handful of them. As for the rest of your post, you are responding to an argument I did not make and have never made. I never claimed that CCS chargers cannot be faster than Tesla chargers.
    - clouddrover 5y ago
      > If you really want to rehabilitate your interpretation I love your pomposity. Here's the Model 3 charging slower than three other cars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxcukAhIAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxcukAhIAU Even the Audi e-tron beats it. How? Flat charging curve. Should have put that Model 3 on a CCS charger.