3 ms·

But _why_ does it feel kind of grating? Why does it frustate you? Again -- votes don't matter. I absolutely love the parent post for making it so plain. Moreov

by avel 5y ago

But _why_ does it feel kind of grating? Why does it frustate you? Again -- votes don't matter. I absolutely love the parent post for making it so plain. Moreover, why do you only care about the downvotes? Why don't upvotes bother you? Something to think about :)

mindcrime 5y ago
Again -- votes don't matter. I absolutely love the parent post for making it so plain. The parent post made an assertion, but did not really justify that assertion. Sure, it's easy to say that in some abstract sense "down votes don't matter". I believe that myself, in that sort of abstract / hand-wavy sense. But real life experience shows us that down votes do matter to people - at least some people, some times, in some situations. Why? I'm not a psychologist, so I'm not going to pretend to understand the deeper aspects of that. But it seems self evident to me that it's related to the other evolved responses we humans have, related to peer approval, social status, recognition, embarrassment, etc. But _why_ does it feel kind of grating? Why does it frustate you? In the specific case I mentioned, I think it's largely about the mismatch between expectations and perceived subjective sense of "right/wrong" and reality. I expect random throwaway comments that just say "taxation is theft" to get downvoted. But when I spend 30 minutes doing research, looking up citations, and crafting a carefully composed response to something, to try to make a point or provide a useful reference to help somebody and then that gets down voted, it triggers that instinctive "unfairness reaction" that we have. Or that's my approximate theory anyway. Moreover, why do you only care about the downvotes? I think because a downvote is a form of disapproval, and it's done in public, and it correlates to our desire to avoid being shamed / embarrassed, especially in front of others.
- avel 5y ago
  I appreciate your response, even if my question was perhaps 50% rhetorical. Of course I can understand the psychological part of it, but that's what I contest here. You write an insightful message in a forum. Perhaps 5,000 people read it, 100 upvote it, 200 downvote it, and let's say that 5 reply with disagreement or trolling. So in the end you find yourself frustrated with the 100 downvotes and the 5 trolls. It's irrational. I can understand how people who profit from likes, upvotes and comments in forums and social media can care about their "Internet points". But for an individual person to care if their post has any kind of vote or to track the number of likes, sorry, I don't think that rationalizing it is any beneficial, productive, sensical.
  - mindcrime 5y ago
    I agree that it's irrational for the most part. But even understanding that on a cerebral level still doesn't stop it from being slightly annoying / frustrating / whatever at times. The vagaries of human nature, I guess...
bmn__ 5y ago
Downvotes matter because they often tie into visibility. On HN, a few downvotes make the post fade out so it is difficult to read. On Reddit, two downvotes collapse a post so that its text becomes hidden. This means on these platforms downvotes are a weaponised tool wielded by someone who can destroy the effort that went into post with but a mouse click.
- avel 5y ago
  Then such forums where your posts can be manipulated so easily are a lost cause, and there's no point in getting frustrated about them.

by avel 5y ago

mindcrime 5y ago

Again -- votes don't matter. I absolutely love the parent post for making it so plain. The parent post made an assertion, but did not really justify that assertion. Sure, it's easy to say that in some abstract sense "down votes don't matter". I believe that myself, in that sort of abstract / hand-wavy sense. But real life experience shows us that down votes do matter to people - at least some people, some times, in some situations. Why? I'm not a psychologist, so I'm not going to pretend to understand the deeper aspects of that. But it seems self evident to me that it's related to the other evolved responses we humans have, related to peer approval, social status, recognition, embarrassment, etc. But _why_ does it feel kind of grating? Why does it frustate you? In the specific case I mentioned, I think it's largely about the mismatch between expectations and perceived subjective sense of "right/wrong" and reality. I expect random throwaway comments that just say "taxation is theft" to get downvoted. But when I spend 30 minutes doing research, looking up citations, and crafting a carefully composed response to something, to try to make a point or provide a useful reference to help somebody and then that gets down voted, it triggers that instinctive "unfairness reaction" that we have. Or that's my approximate theory anyway. Moreover, why do you only care about the downvotes? I think because a downvote is a form of disapproval, and it's done in public, and it correlates to our desire to avoid being shamed / embarrassed, especially in front of others.

avel 5y ago
I appreciate your response, even if my question was perhaps 50% rhetorical. Of course I can understand the psychological part of it, but that's what I contest here. You write an insightful message in a forum. Perhaps 5,000 people read it, 100 upvote it, 200 downvote it, and let's say that 5 reply with disagreement or trolling. So in the end you find yourself frustrated with the 100 downvotes and the 5 trolls. It's irrational. I can understand how people who profit from likes, upvotes and comments in forums and social media can care about their "Internet points". But for an individual person to care if their post has any kind of vote or to track the number of likes, sorry, I don't think that rationalizing it is any beneficial, productive, sensical.
- mindcrime 5y ago
  I agree that it's irrational for the most part. But even understanding that on a cerebral level still doesn't stop it from being slightly annoying / frustrating / whatever at times. The vagaries of human nature, I guess...

bmn__ 5y ago

Downvotes matter because they often tie into visibility. On HN, a few downvotes make the post fade out so it is difficult to read. On Reddit, two downvotes collapse a post so that its text becomes hidden. This means on these platforms downvotes are a weaponised tool wielded by someone who can destroy the effort that went into post with but a mouse click.

avel 5y ago
Then such forums where your posts can be manipulated so easily are a lost cause, and there's no point in getting frustrated about them.