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> There should be no requirement to have the camera on, it really adds very little over voice alone While I agree that people shouldn't be required to have the

> There should be no requirement to have the camera on, it really adds very little over voice alone While I agree that people shouldn't be required to have their camera on for the first reasons you mentioned, I disagree on this point. I find that without a face to read, I have a very difficult time navigating conversations. It's the same reason phone calls give me so much anxiety. There are subtleties happening in facial expressions while a person is talking and gesticulating that communicate important information. Maybe you've adapted to a set of circumstances throughout your life that means this doesn't affect you as much (maybe you spoke a lot on the phone when you were younger, I don't know), but I personally rely quite heavily on facial expressions for social cues. Without them, I fall apart.

Apocryphon 5y ago
Makes me wonder if Zoom or someone is working on an enterprise-friendly equivalent to FaceTime Memojis, so that you can show facial expressions without your actual face: https://www.howtogeek.com/693237/how-to-use-memoji-during-a-facetime-call-on-iphone-and-ipad/ https://www.howtogeek.com/693237/how-to-use-memoji-during-a-... Toss in some deepfake and you can map those expressions into a digital version of your face. So a touched-up, AI-generated version of your face- but not your actual face at the moment.
- yurishimo 5y ago
  At this point, you might as well show your face. If the AI is mirroring your every mood on a deepfake, what's the reason not to?
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    Maybe you didn't clean yourself up as much as the AI image would indicate. Maybe you're dressed down. Maybe you want to use the simulation rather than your real image. And maybe the mood is tweakable.
redshirtrob 5y ago
Video calls give me anxiety. Often enough, the other party's camera is off to the side so they appear as though they're not engaged, even though they are. I _know_ they're probably paying attention, but it's reminiscent of a face-to-face conversation where the other party is staring at their phone more than they're looking at me. So even though I know they're engaged, my brain's circuitry keeps telling me they're not.
saiya-jin 5y ago
We have video by default off in all of our meetings, and here we talk about top 10 bank in the world and 80k employees. The reason might be due to the fact they didn't provide us laptops with covid (or before), or any dedicated hardware like webcam, so we have audio-only meetings via app calling our phones. Mind you, I WFH on quite high-end desktop with 32" screen and very good webcam for calls with parents. The benefits are that I don't need to mind what clothes I wear, since comfort is a major improvement for WFH. I can have my child running around while being on mute, dedicating to him small slices of my time. Anybody who has kiddo or two knows how perfectly clean place gets into messy state in few minutes, so there are toys and stuff just lying all around. Being so corporate, 3-5 meetings/day is a norm. I can have the meeting anywhere where phone can ring if quiet enough. If we need more cooperation, sure skype/screen sharing is an option too. There are almost always more people on the call then really need be, or their time is 5-minute slice out of 30 minutes, so we all still stay in case of sudden questions/brainstorming, but we do our other stuff (and there is endless stream of it). Actually when randomly 1-2 persons come with video, it looks a bit weird. You don't want to study their facial expressions when they do other work, and I've seen a butt crack of a very high manager once or twice on a call with 10+ very senior people. If you think video is helping you stand out and looking oh-so-well dedicated, well not in such cases. Nobody is bothered by this lack of video, once you get used to audio-only, it works great. I mean we are all adults here, if any doubt or unclarity, why being afraid to ask? There are no stupid questions as we all know.
- dorkwood 5y ago
  > Nobody is bothered by this lack of video, once you get used to audio-only, it works great. I mean we are all adults here, if any doubt or unclarity, why being afraid to ask? There are no stupid questions as we all know. Why do you assume I'm afraid to ask questions? I'm probably the most outspoken person at my workplace. I suppose whenever I make a joke, I could ask "did anyone understand my joke? I just want to clarify that I was joking". Or maybe it would be safest to never make jokes at all anymore. My point is that it makes conversation more difficult. There are many more subtle human interactions, other than jokes, that are similarly hamstrung when you're not able to see a face on the other end.
walkedaway 5y ago
> I find that without a face to read, I have a very difficult time navigating conversations. I hear this a lot, and in my long experience I find that most people are terrible at reading others in the business world. I've seen so many misunderstandings because of people reading into others tone, body language, etc, instead of just listening to the words and interpreting them.

Apocryphon 5y ago

Makes me wonder if Zoom or someone is working on an enterprise-friendly equivalent to FaceTime Memojis, so that you can show facial expressions without your actual face: https://www.howtogeek.com/693237/how-to-use-memoji-during-a-facetime-call-on-iphone-and-ipad/ https://www.howtogeek.com/693237/how-to-use-memoji-during-a-... Toss in some deepfake and you can map those expressions into a digital version of your face. So a touched-up, AI-generated version of your face- but not your actual face at the moment.

yurishimo 5y ago
At this point, you might as well show your face. If the AI is mirroring your every mood on a deepfake, what's the reason not to?
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  Maybe you didn't clean yourself up as much as the AI image would indicate. Maybe you're dressed down. Maybe you want to use the simulation rather than your real image. And maybe the mood is tweakable.

redshirtrob 5y ago

Video calls give me anxiety. Often enough, the other party's camera is off to the side so they appear as though they're not engaged, even though they are. I _know_ they're probably paying attention, but it's reminiscent of a face-to-face conversation where the other party is staring at their phone more than they're looking at me. So even though I know they're engaged, my brain's circuitry keeps telling me they're not.

saiya-jin 5y ago

We have video by default off in all of our meetings, and here we talk about top 10 bank in the world and 80k employees. The reason might be due to the fact they didn't provide us laptops with covid (or before), or any dedicated hardware like webcam, so we have audio-only meetings via app calling our phones. Mind you, I WFH on quite high-end desktop with 32" screen and very good webcam for calls with parents. The benefits are that I don't need to mind what clothes I wear, since comfort is a major improvement for WFH. I can have my child running around while being on mute, dedicating to him small slices of my time. Anybody who has kiddo or two knows how perfectly clean place gets into messy state in few minutes, so there are toys and stuff just lying all around. Being so corporate, 3-5 meetings/day is a norm. I can have the meeting anywhere where phone can ring if quiet enough. If we need more cooperation, sure skype/screen sharing is an option too. There are almost always more people on the call then really need be, or their time is 5-minute slice out of 30 minutes, so we all still stay in case of sudden questions/brainstorming, but we do our other stuff (and there is endless stream of it). Actually when randomly 1-2 persons come with video, it looks a bit weird. You don't want to study their facial expressions when they do other work, and I've seen a butt crack of a very high manager once or twice on a call with 10+ very senior people. If you think video is helping you stand out and looking oh-so-well dedicated, well not in such cases. Nobody is bothered by this lack of video, once you get used to audio-only, it works great. I mean we are all adults here, if any doubt or unclarity, why being afraid to ask? There are no stupid questions as we all know.

dorkwood 5y ago
> Nobody is bothered by this lack of video, once you get used to audio-only, it works great. I mean we are all adults here, if any doubt or unclarity, why being afraid to ask? There are no stupid questions as we all know. Why do you assume I'm afraid to ask questions? I'm probably the most outspoken person at my workplace. I suppose whenever I make a joke, I could ask "did anyone understand my joke? I just want to clarify that I was joking". Or maybe it would be safest to never make jokes at all anymore. My point is that it makes conversation more difficult. There are many more subtle human interactions, other than jokes, that are similarly hamstrung when you're not able to see a face on the other end.

walkedaway 5y ago

> I find that without a face to read, I have a very difficult time navigating conversations. I hear this a lot, and in my long experience I find that most people are terrible at reading others in the business world. I've seen so many misunderstandings because of people reading into others tone, body language, etc, instead of just listening to the words and interpreting them.