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Your dad’s car was using 3 gallons per 100 miles. The computers do add some value.

by lixtra 5y ago

swiley 5y ago
There's no reason computers should mean you can't repair your car, I repair my computers. That's just a shitty bait and switch marketing trick like the idea that ARM computers cant run FOSS just because of the architecture.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- gmueckl 5y ago
  No, using computers means exactly that: hardware is now commonly designed to run in conjunction with very specific software control. Without understanding the overall design very, very well, modifications can essily result in delayed comsequences that are hard to understand. The end result is a device that can have a reduced lifetime and/or become dangerous to its environment because the changes introduce a new failure mode. The source code to the software doesn't help much. It doesn't document design decisions that can relate to electrical or mechanical properties of the device. I am not agaist a right to repair in general, but what I want to see is pretty strict regulation that repairs to potentially hazardous devices may only be performed by trained professionals. E.g. the brakes in your car would be off limits anyone except a licensed mechanic. But manufacturers would have to supply documentation, tools and spare parts to any qualified mechanic, not just their own dealerships.
  - iamtheworstdev 5y ago
    If you're making that comment then I don't believe you understand how simple the brake systems in our cars are, or other systems are. Swapping rotors and pads on all four wheels can be done in an hour on most cars, trucks, SUVs, etc. And on most vehicles there's more bolts involved in removing the wheels than the pads and rotors. Hell, even rebuilding an entire caliper is a simple job. If you don't want people tampering with the ECU or ABS controller (if the vehicle has ABS) then I get that. But a blanket statement like "average joe can't touch the brakes" is horribly ignorant.
    - gmueckl 5y ago
      The brake system is one of these things that are literally lifesavers when they work and killers when they don't. I think that it's a good idea to have every part of that system - especially the easily accessible mechanical parts - off limits to untrained tinkerers. You can't undo injury or death that can result easily from a faulty brake.
      - wiseleo 5y ago
        Very funny. On my car: remove 5x 19mm lugnuts, remove wheel, reinstall 2x lug nuts, remove 2x 21mm caliper assembly bolts, remove the caliper assembly, use a 4" C-clamp over the existing used inner brake pad to retract the caliper piston, replace pads, reinstall caliper assembly, reinstall 21mm bolts to secure caliper assembly to steering knuckle, remove 2x lug nuts, reinstall wheel, install 5x lug nuts torqued to 85ft/lb. Need to swap rotor? It's only secured by 2 of those lugnuts, so just do it then. What's dangerous? It will not allow you to do it wrong because parts will not fit. You need exactly two sockets: 21mm and 19mm.
  - swiley 5y ago
    Oh fuck off. Any critical system has these problems regardless of how its built.
markkanof 5y ago
I think I get your point that the computers help to increase efficiency, but your illustrative numbers don’t seem right. A lot of brand new cars use more than 3 gallons per 100 miles.

Your dad’s car was using 3 gallons per 100 miles. The computers do add some value.

by lixtra 5y ago

Your dad’s car was using 3 gallons per 100 miles. The computers do add some value.

There's no reason computers should mean you can't repair your car, I repair my computers. That's just a shitty bait and switch marketing trick like the idea that ARM computers cant run FOSS just because of the architecture.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
gmueckl 5y ago
No, using computers means exactly that: hardware is now commonly designed to run in conjunction with very specific software control. Without understanding the overall design very, very well, modifications can essily result in delayed comsequences that are hard to understand. The end result is a device that can have a reduced lifetime and/or become dangerous to its environment because the changes introduce a new failure mode. The source code to the software doesn't help much. It doesn't document design decisions that can relate to electrical or mechanical properties of the device. I am not agaist a right to repair in general, but what I want to see is pretty strict regulation that repairs to potentially hazardous devices may only be performed by trained professionals. E.g. the brakes in your car would be off limits anyone except a licensed mechanic. But manufacturers would have to supply documentation, tools and spare parts to any qualified mechanic, not just their own dealerships.
- iamtheworstdev 5y ago
  If you're making that comment then I don't believe you understand how simple the brake systems in our cars are, or other systems are. Swapping rotors and pads on all four wheels can be done in an hour on most cars, trucks, SUVs, etc. And on most vehicles there's more bolts involved in removing the wheels than the pads and rotors. Hell, even rebuilding an entire caliper is a simple job. If you don't want people tampering with the ECU or ABS controller (if the vehicle has ABS) then I get that. But a blanket statement like "average joe can't touch the brakes" is horribly ignorant.
  - gmueckl 5y ago
    The brake system is one of these things that are literally lifesavers when they work and killers when they don't. I think that it's a good idea to have every part of that system - especially the easily accessible mechanical parts - off limits to untrained tinkerers. You can't undo injury or death that can result easily from a faulty brake.
    - wiseleo 5y ago
      Very funny. On my car: remove 5x 19mm lugnuts, remove wheel, reinstall 2x lug nuts, remove 2x 21mm caliper assembly bolts, remove the caliper assembly, use a 4" C-clamp over the existing used inner brake pad to retract the caliper piston, replace pads, reinstall caliper assembly, reinstall 21mm bolts to secure caliper assembly to steering knuckle, remove 2x lug nuts, reinstall wheel, install 5x lug nuts torqued to 85ft/lb. Need to swap rotor? It's only secured by 2 of those lugnuts, so just do it then. What's dangerous? It will not allow you to do it wrong because parts will not fit. You need exactly two sockets: 21mm and 19mm.
- swiley 5y ago
  Oh fuck off. Any critical system has these problems regardless of how its built.

markkanof 5y ago

I think I get your point that the computers help to increase efficiency, but your illustrative numbers don’t seem right. A lot of brand new cars use more than 3 gallons per 100 miles.