4 ms·

I think it’s relevant to plug OSE https://www.opensourceecology.org/ https://www.opensourceecology.org/ There are free designs for a large number of useful mac

I think it’s relevant to plug OSE https://www.opensourceecology.org/ https://www.opensourceecology.org/ There are free designs for a large number of useful machines, but the trade off is that you have none of a manufacturers’ warranties for safety or useful life. Personally, I think it’s a lot more palatable to subsidize open designs that can be easily modified by a user instead of legally compelling a manufacturer to give the world their intellectual property. I think a few $M in grant programs to uni engineering programs with a few paid senior industry consultants could really make a difference (I think the motive force behind OSE is basically one guy).

kortex 5y ago
> I think the motive force behind OSE is basically one guy). That's what it looks like; at the very least, they are extremely short staffed vs the problems they want to tackle. They have been at it for years and have barely made progress in terms of the actual wiki. Their main problem right now is you need a pretty full-blown machine shop and access to lots of materials to make the machines. That's fine for industrialized countries, but if you want to help mechanize the developing world, you are probably better off making a tractor which can be kitbashed from a Toyota Hilux. What they ought to be focusing on is the "API" - a standard spec for attaching X to Y. A POSIX for PTOs, if you will, but for more parts than just the PTO. A standard rubric for machines and accessories across the farm, like Morse taper but wider in scope. Regardless, I'd love to see that program get an infusion of cash and talent, and get a full tractor design out the door.
dna_polymerase 5y ago
These sort of projects are great but as someone in this discussion pointed out, we are talking about food supply. No manufacturer should be allowed to fuck with that in this way.
- grumblenum 5y ago
  The manufacturer is making food production at scale possible. John Deere does not “fuck with” you when you buy its products. Expropriating their trade secrets because someone decided this was a special case seems capricious. Why not nullify Pfizer’s patents? Do we not have a “right to repair” our bodies with their drugs? Why not seize Google’s monorepo and publish it in the Library of Congress? Do we not have a “right to repair” our information systems? I guess picking the winners and losers of this policy is to be left up to the lobbyists?
  - rtkwe 5y ago
    > Why not nullify Pfizer’s patents? Don't threaten me with a good time. There's insane level of harm both medically and financially that comes from locking life saving drugs behind patents.
  - atatatat 5y ago
    > Do we not have a “right to repair” our bodies with their drugs? Actually...yes. If someone catches wind/reverse engineers/synthesizes Pfizer drugs and saves themselves or others on a small enough scale tax authorities don't even chase them, I think humanity benefits.
  - cestith 5y ago
    What do you think a patent is? I'll give you a hint: it's not enhanced protection for long-term trade secrets.
    - grumblenum 5y ago
      Exclusionary rights to make, use or redistribute a thing. I’m under the impression that patent rights allow one to sue to prevent others from making, using or redistributing a thing without a contract or license from the patent holder. I would call that protection. Maybe it’s different where you live.
      - Yaa101 5y ago
        He was talking about protecting a trade secret, patents are about giving up your trade secret to have a monopoly for a given time. This enabled society in the past to build complex systems by standing on each others shoulders. The problem with patents nowadays is the way they are validated, they used to be validated on the idea and now they are validated on implementation, which enables corporations to change a single ingredient of that idea to take out another patent. Also corruption of all parts of government and civil society does not help e.a. lobby-ism, revolving door employment between corporations and government/civil society.
        5y ago
re-al 5y ago
Yes - there should be designs for cars, washing machines, simple engines, all made from fairly generic, common and standardised components. But this will never - NEVER - happen. For obvious reasons.

kortex 5y ago

> I think the motive force behind OSE is basically one guy). That's what it looks like; at the very least, they are extremely short staffed vs the problems they want to tackle. They have been at it for years and have barely made progress in terms of the actual wiki. Their main problem right now is you need a pretty full-blown machine shop and access to lots of materials to make the machines. That's fine for industrialized countries, but if you want to help mechanize the developing world, you are probably better off making a tractor which can be kitbashed from a Toyota Hilux. What they ought to be focusing on is the "API" - a standard spec for attaching X to Y. A POSIX for PTOs, if you will, but for more parts than just the PTO. A standard rubric for machines and accessories across the farm, like Morse taper but wider in scope. Regardless, I'd love to see that program get an infusion of cash and talent, and get a full tractor design out the door.

dna_polymerase 5y ago

These sort of projects are great but as someone in this discussion pointed out, we are talking about food supply. No manufacturer should be allowed to fuck with that in this way.

grumblenum 5y ago
The manufacturer is making food production at scale possible. John Deere does not “fuck with” you when you buy its products. Expropriating their trade secrets because someone decided this was a special case seems capricious. Why not nullify Pfizer’s patents? Do we not have a “right to repair” our bodies with their drugs? Why not seize Google’s monorepo and publish it in the Library of Congress? Do we not have a “right to repair” our information systems? I guess picking the winners and losers of this policy is to be left up to the lobbyists?
- rtkwe 5y ago
  > Why not nullify Pfizer’s patents? Don't threaten me with a good time. There's insane level of harm both medically and financially that comes from locking life saving drugs behind patents.
- atatatat 5y ago
  > Do we not have a “right to repair” our bodies with their drugs? Actually...yes. If someone catches wind/reverse engineers/synthesizes Pfizer drugs and saves themselves or others on a small enough scale tax authorities don't even chase them, I think humanity benefits.
- cestith 5y ago
  What do you think a patent is? I'll give you a hint: it's not enhanced protection for long-term trade secrets.
  - grumblenum 5y ago
    Exclusionary rights to make, use or redistribute a thing. I’m under the impression that patent rights allow one to sue to prevent others from making, using or redistributing a thing without a contract or license from the patent holder. I would call that protection. Maybe it’s different where you live.
    - Yaa101 5y ago
      He was talking about protecting a trade secret, patents are about giving up your trade secret to have a monopoly for a given time. This enabled society in the past to build complex systems by standing on each others shoulders. The problem with patents nowadays is the way they are validated, they used to be validated on the idea and now they are validated on implementation, which enables corporations to change a single ingredient of that idea to take out another patent. Also corruption of all parts of government and civil society does not help e.a. lobby-ism, revolving door employment between corporations and government/civil society.
      - 5y ago

re-al 5y ago

Yes - there should be designs for cars, washing machines, simple engines, all made from fairly generic, common and standardised components. But this will never - NEVER - happen. For obvious reasons.