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I think this is a generational fault line that's pretty common even in good relationships. Older generations could get by making way less pragmatic choices. Man

I think this is a generational fault line that's pretty common even in good relationships. Older generations could get by making way less pragmatic choices. Many of the older generation graduated into an economy where the default state was almost full employment. Long term unemployment, or being stuck in a dead-end job, was for losers. So even nice parents often look at their kids and think their kids are losers or doing something wrong because everybody they grew up with who had the kind of problems their kids have were really dysfunctional people.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
If you're not from the kind of family where kids goes to college is going to college and trying to get an office job the pragmatic choice? Unless you have some very good reason to think you'll be the exception odds are you'll just wind up with a few wasted years and a partial degree. Busting your ass as a plumber with the goal of eventually being the guy that owns the business (or whatever) can be the pragmatic choice.
- elipsey 5y ago
  Are plumbers licensed? Should I assume that just anyone can become a plumber? Licensed trades have gatekeepers, e.g., my high-school friend couldn't be an electrician because he couldn't get a union internship. They were full and he didn't know anyone important. Also, I believe that the licensing required the completion of course work. I have never had a job that didn't require college and also paid more than rent. It seems a strong assumption that there are ready alternatives which pay a subsistence or higher wage. Of course it is also a strong assumption that higher education will necessarily result in a subsistance or higher wage, but my point is that it seems unfounded to simply assume that there is a reliable practicable alternative just because there used to be. As far as I know, I don't know anyone who didn't go to college and can reliably pay rent by themselves, and I know lots of people who didn't go to college.
Arnt 5y ago
Could get by provided they had the right skin. If you read American novels up to about 1960 and pay attention to those high-melanin people you'll see a lot of "being stuck in a dead-end job".
- pasabagi 5y ago
  That's true. I'm not American, didn't really think of the racial aspect of american social welfare. I think that's a bit more muted in europe, although it's still there.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

If you're not from the kind of family where kids goes to college is going to college and trying to get an office job the pragmatic choice? Unless you have some very good reason to think you'll be the exception odds are you'll just wind up with a few wasted years and a partial degree. Busting your ass as a plumber with the goal of eventually being the guy that owns the business (or whatever) can be the pragmatic choice.

elipsey 5y ago
Are plumbers licensed? Should I assume that just anyone can become a plumber? Licensed trades have gatekeepers, e.g., my high-school friend couldn't be an electrician because he couldn't get a union internship. They were full and he didn't know anyone important. Also, I believe that the licensing required the completion of course work. I have never had a job that didn't require college and also paid more than rent. It seems a strong assumption that there are ready alternatives which pay a subsistence or higher wage. Of course it is also a strong assumption that higher education will necessarily result in a subsistance or higher wage, but my point is that it seems unfounded to simply assume that there is a reliable practicable alternative just because there used to be. As far as I know, I don't know anyone who didn't go to college and can reliably pay rent by themselves, and I know lots of people who didn't go to college.

Arnt 5y ago

Could get by provided they had the right skin. If you read American novels up to about 1960 and pay attention to those high-melanin people you'll see a lot of "being stuck in a dead-end job".

pasabagi 5y ago
That's true. I'm not American, didn't really think of the racial aspect of american social welfare. I think that's a bit more muted in europe, although it's still there.