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> It's also worth noting that the military is a toxic cesspit for sexual abuse. Comparing any sane workplace to the military is a joke. Nobody should want to be

> It's also worth noting that the military is a toxic cesspit for sexual abuse. Comparing any sane workplace to the military is a joke. Nobody should want to be like the military, including the military. Can confirm true from experience. To be fair, the military (USMC experience only) is structured to intentionally harass all members below certain ranks continuously, with the idea being that it keeps them sharp and willing to follow orders that put them or others directly in harm's way. Sexual harassment was punished severely, but at the lowest levels possible, and wasn't often reported.

arbitrage 5y ago
> Sexual harassment was punished severely, but at the lowest levels possible, and wasn't often reported. So, not severely, then?
- craftinator 5y ago
  > So, not severely, then? Probably could have phrased it better. The military culture is very different than civilian culture, jokes and turns of phrase that would be completely unacceptable in the civilian world are common, and the tolerance for them is higher. It's very much like the difference between working an office job, and going out to a seedy bar; different culture, different expectations and rules. But as for what I said, there was a lot of borderline sexual harassment (and much of it that I witnessed not involving females at all) that went unreported. But when something was reported, it stayed at lower levels most times, and involved squad and platoon level justice, which is very, very severe. Like more severe than is allowed under the UCMJ.
void_mint 5y ago
> Sexual assault in the United States armed forces is an ongoing issue which has received extensive media coverage in the past. A 2012 Pentagon survey found that approximately 26,000 women and men were sexually assaulted that year; of those, only 3,374 cases were reported.[1] In 2013, a new Pentagon report found that 5,061 troops reported cases of assault. Some are optimistic that this increase in reports is indicative of victims "growing more comfortable in the system".[2] Of the reported cases, only 484 cases went to trial; 376 resulted in convictions.[3] Another investigation found that one in five women in the United States Air Force who were sexually assaulted by service members reported it, for one in 15 men.[4] > A survey for the Department of Defense conducted in 2015 found that in the past year 52% of active service members who reported sexual assault had experienced retaliation in the form of professional, social, and administrative actions or punishments.[5] In addition to retaliation against soldiers remaining in active service, many former service members who reported sexual assaults were forced to leave after being discharged. Reasons for discharge included having a "personality disorder" or engaging in misconduct related to the sexual assault such as fraternization or (prior to the end of don't ask, don't tell) homosexuality, even if the homosexual conduct was non-consensual.[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_in_the_United_States_military https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_in_the_United_S... I would say that the punishment seeming severe is mostly a display.
- craftinator 5y ago
  I think people may be missing the connection between punishments being with severe, and kept at a low level. A platoon will do a lot more to punish someone than a battalion. Justice under the UCMJ is similar to how a grand jury operates, where the highest ranking officers will hear a case with evidence, and make decisions about guilt and punishment. Platoon level punishment is much more freeform, and tends to ignore those rules about type and duration of punishment; much more corporal in nature.

arbitrage 5y ago

> Sexual harassment was punished severely, but at the lowest levels possible, and wasn't often reported. So, not severely, then?

craftinator 5y ago
> So, not severely, then? Probably could have phrased it better. The military culture is very different than civilian culture, jokes and turns of phrase that would be completely unacceptable in the civilian world are common, and the tolerance for them is higher. It's very much like the difference between working an office job, and going out to a seedy bar; different culture, different expectations and rules. But as for what I said, there was a lot of borderline sexual harassment (and much of it that I witnessed not involving females at all) that went unreported. But when something was reported, it stayed at lower levels most times, and involved squad and platoon level justice, which is very, very severe. Like more severe than is allowed under the UCMJ.

void_mint 5y ago

> Sexual assault in the United States armed forces is an ongoing issue which has received extensive media coverage in the past. A 2012 Pentagon survey found that approximately 26,000 women and men were sexually assaulted that year; of those, only 3,374 cases were reported.[1] In 2013, a new Pentagon report found that 5,061 troops reported cases of assault. Some are optimistic that this increase in reports is indicative of victims "growing more comfortable in the system".[2] Of the reported cases, only 484 cases went to trial; 376 resulted in convictions.[3] Another investigation found that one in five women in the United States Air Force who were sexually assaulted by service members reported it, for one in 15 men.[4] > A survey for the Department of Defense conducted in 2015 found that in the past year 52% of active service members who reported sexual assault had experienced retaliation in the form of professional, social, and administrative actions or punishments.[5] In addition to retaliation against soldiers remaining in active service, many former service members who reported sexual assaults were forced to leave after being discharged. Reasons for discharge included having a "personality disorder" or engaging in misconduct related to the sexual assault such as fraternization or (prior to the end of don't ask, don't tell) homosexuality, even if the homosexual conduct was non-consensual.[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_in_the_United_States_military https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_in_the_United_S... I would say that the punishment seeming severe is mostly a display.

craftinator 5y ago
I think people may be missing the connection between punishments being with severe, and kept at a low level. A platoon will do a lot more to punish someone than a battalion. Justice under the UCMJ is similar to how a grand jury operates, where the highest ranking officers will hear a case with evidence, and make decisions about guilt and punishment. Platoon level punishment is much more freeform, and tends to ignore those rules about type and duration of punishment; much more corporal in nature.