5 ms·

Some of this is interesting, such as the social media aspect, but I'd like to understand exactly what your motivation is and where your funding is from. One of

Some of this is interesting, such as the social media aspect, but I'd like to understand exactly what your motivation is and where your funding is from. One of the things few people know about the new "porn addiction" websites, including NoFap and "Fight the New Drug" is that there are connections between these groups and the LDS (ie Mormon) church. It's less about "addiction" than creating a stigma around pornography use by wrapping it in pseudo-science. While pornography can be addictive, there are other models than absence and restriction that are shown to help all addiction (not just pornography), and I'm wondering if you'd looked into them, or (frankly) if this is just another LSD-funded scheme to turn people off of the idea of porn.

zero_billion 5y ago
we're completely bootstrapped and haven't taken any external funding yet. we aren't sponsored by any church etc. and have no religious affiliation. restriction might help all addictions. But, we need to start somewhere, and we have chosen this specific problem. we plan to launch solutions for compulsive usage of technology products in the coming months and years.
- ipsum2 5y ago
  > we're completely bootstrapped and haven't taken any external funding yet Didn't you take YC money? That sounds external and not bootstrapped to me. Unless they've changed the rules.
  - borski 5y ago
    Fair point, but I’d assume the parent meant outside of YC. To my knowledge, YC doesn’t have any connections to LDS or the Mormon church. :)
  - zero_billion 5y ago
    sorry, I missed YC. Other than YC we haven't taken any external funds. I forgot to add this as technically the funds still haven't hit our account (still paperwork is pending).
keyb0ardninja 5y ago
No pseudo-science is required when you've real solid science: https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/research/ https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/research/ https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3RQbsaYfM https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3RQbsaYfM
- belorn 5y ago
  There is better unbiased sources for science, and the best is simply the medical definition in DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition) or ICD-11 (eleventh revision of the International Classification of Diseases). There is no addiction or compulsion unless the person is experiencing direct negative consequences to one's physical, mental, social, or financial well-being. I.E, no professional following a medical definition would touch a diagnosis of pornography compulsion unless there is clear documentation that the viewing has been causing negative consequences for the individual. Most likely they would not diagnose anything related to porn usage at all since neither the international standards nor World Health Organization recognize the diagnosis. What a lot of people also try to imply is that all porn usage causes negative consequences. It is a bit like the prohibition tactic implying that any alcohol consumption causes alcoholism and significant bodily harm. Naturally we won't find a study saying there is no correlation between alcoholism and alcohol consumption, and some of the studies is likely to imply that consumption of alcohol may cause alcoholism. What the more insightful studies show is the risk factors that makes a person more likely to become addicted or get compulsions and what factors gives protection against it. The usual finding in such studies are environmental factors rather than simply consumption.
  - zero_billion 5y ago
    DSM-5 and ICD-11 are incredibly slow and it takes years and may be decades for them to be able to write to manual on something new like compulsive usage of digital products etc. it's hard to rely on them for newer problems that don't have lots of research done on them.
  - JohnWhigham 5y ago
    Why do so many people like you crop up in any porn-related thread? You instantly assume anyone questioning the accessibility of pornography are on a religious tirade to abolish it and send us back to the days of the Puritans. Just because there's not some peer-reviewed studies saying "porn bad" doesn't mean it hasn't had negative effects on society.
huanwin 5y ago
There are definitely groups out there pushing a religious or prudish agenda. I'd like to offer my own anecdote, as a completely secular person whose lifestyle would probably invite condemnation, if not horror, from e.g. LDS. I won't describe exactly why they might feel that way, but let it suffice to say that I have spent non-trivial time around people who have done what some call victimless crimes, among other and more legal behaviors. I find that I feel better emotionally and perform better professionally (and academically, when I was in school) when I refrain completely from this vice. I also find that I have much less intrusive thoughts of the sexual variety, especially at inappropriate times about inappropriate people. I understand your concern that pseudoscientific and/or religious groups might be exerting this influence. I just wanted to give an example of the opposite. See these videos [0] [1] where people in the gaming community (which in my experience is very often agnostic, if not atheist) have essentially a group coaching session with a psychologist for their undesired relationships to porn. Very rarely do they mention religion, but quite often do they mention emotional distress, life difficulties, social struggles, and difficulty stopping a behavior they find distressing. Whether or not it's an "addiction" (and scientific discussions related to the debate) I find irrelevant -- they personally wish they could stop and have trouble doing so. I appreciate your efforts to, as I perceive it, point out potential sources of bias or misinformation. I just wanted to offer a totally secular view of the benefit of and reason why an app like this might have funding and a market. [0] https://youtu.be/e1ndqAkiQZo https://youtu.be/e1ndqAkiQZo [1] https://youtu.be/lUVeUSIlQiI https://youtu.be/lUVeUSIlQiI
ummonk 5y ago
I’m not sure the LDS church would be too keen on funding an app named after a Hindu concept.
- zero_billion 5y ago
  Atmana is a combination of 2 sanskrit words. there's nothing hindu about the name at all.
  - JetAlone 5y ago
    What two words are they? "Atmana" invokes imagery of "Atman"and "Mana" particularly for native english speakers; both words are highly connected to spiritual and/or philosophical concepts that most devout members of Abrahamic faiths are not going to be comfortable with.

zero_billion 5y ago

we're completely bootstrapped and haven't taken any external funding yet. we aren't sponsored by any church etc. and have no religious affiliation. restriction might help all addictions. But, we need to start somewhere, and we have chosen this specific problem. we plan to launch solutions for compulsive usage of technology products in the coming months and years.

ipsum2 5y ago
> we're completely bootstrapped and haven't taken any external funding yet Didn't you take YC money? That sounds external and not bootstrapped to me. Unless they've changed the rules.
- borski 5y ago
  Fair point, but I’d assume the parent meant outside of YC. To my knowledge, YC doesn’t have any connections to LDS or the Mormon church. :)
- zero_billion 5y ago
  sorry, I missed YC. Other than YC we haven't taken any external funds. I forgot to add this as technically the funds still haven't hit our account (still paperwork is pending).

keyb0ardninja 5y ago

No pseudo-science is required when you've real solid science: https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/research/ https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/research/ https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3RQbsaYfM https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3RQbsaYfM

belorn 5y ago
There is better unbiased sources for science, and the best is simply the medical definition in DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition) or ICD-11 (eleventh revision of the International Classification of Diseases). There is no addiction or compulsion unless the person is experiencing direct negative consequences to one's physical, mental, social, or financial well-being. I.E, no professional following a medical definition would touch a diagnosis of pornography compulsion unless there is clear documentation that the viewing has been causing negative consequences for the individual. Most likely they would not diagnose anything related to porn usage at all since neither the international standards nor World Health Organization recognize the diagnosis. What a lot of people also try to imply is that all porn usage causes negative consequences. It is a bit like the prohibition tactic implying that any alcohol consumption causes alcoholism and significant bodily harm. Naturally we won't find a study saying there is no correlation between alcoholism and alcohol consumption, and some of the studies is likely to imply that consumption of alcohol may cause alcoholism. What the more insightful studies show is the risk factors that makes a person more likely to become addicted or get compulsions and what factors gives protection against it. The usual finding in such studies are environmental factors rather than simply consumption.
- zero_billion 5y ago
  DSM-5 and ICD-11 are incredibly slow and it takes years and may be decades for them to be able to write to manual on something new like compulsive usage of digital products etc. it's hard to rely on them for newer problems that don't have lots of research done on them.
- JohnWhigham 5y ago
  Why do so many people like you crop up in any porn-related thread? You instantly assume anyone questioning the accessibility of pornography are on a religious tirade to abolish it and send us back to the days of the Puritans. Just because there's not some peer-reviewed studies saying "porn bad" doesn't mean it hasn't had negative effects on society.

huanwin 5y ago

There are definitely groups out there pushing a religious or prudish agenda. I'd like to offer my own anecdote, as a completely secular person whose lifestyle would probably invite condemnation, if not horror, from e.g. LDS. I won't describe exactly why they might feel that way, but let it suffice to say that I have spent non-trivial time around people who have done what some call victimless crimes, among other and more legal behaviors. I find that I feel better emotionally and perform better professionally (and academically, when I was in school) when I refrain completely from this vice. I also find that I have much less intrusive thoughts of the sexual variety, especially at inappropriate times about inappropriate people. I understand your concern that pseudoscientific and/or religious groups might be exerting this influence. I just wanted to give an example of the opposite. See these videos [0] [1] where people in the gaming community (which in my experience is very often agnostic, if not atheist) have essentially a group coaching session with a psychologist for their undesired relationships to porn. Very rarely do they mention religion, but quite often do they mention emotional distress, life difficulties, social struggles, and difficulty stopping a behavior they find distressing. Whether or not it's an "addiction" (and scientific discussions related to the debate) I find irrelevant -- they personally wish they could stop and have trouble doing so. I appreciate your efforts to, as I perceive it, point out potential sources of bias or misinformation. I just wanted to offer a totally secular view of the benefit of and reason why an app like this might have funding and a market. [0] https://youtu.be/e1ndqAkiQZo https://youtu.be/e1ndqAkiQZo [1] https://youtu.be/lUVeUSIlQiI https://youtu.be/lUVeUSIlQiI

ummonk 5y ago

I’m not sure the LDS church would be too keen on funding an app named after a Hindu concept.

zero_billion 5y ago
Atmana is a combination of 2 sanskrit words. there's nothing hindu about the name at all.
- JetAlone 5y ago
  What two words are they? "Atmana" invokes imagery of "Atman"and "Mana" particularly for native english speakers; both words are highly connected to spiritual and/or philosophical concepts that most devout members of Abrahamic faiths are not going to be comfortable with.