4 ms·

> How often are you going on road trips? It's not the frequency, it's the notion that one will have purchased a "bad" vehicle. Here, "bad" means that you need

by runako 5y ago

> How often are you going on road trips? It's not the frequency, it's the notion that one will have purchased a "bad" vehicle. Here, "bad" means that you need to rent another car[1] in order to go on a road trip. People buy cars for convenience, and renting a car to use instead of the car you own is not convenient. It's not odd to expect a new car to be as functional as one's current car over the course of a single year. 1 - The last time I rented a vehicle for a road trip (we had an extra guest, so wouldn't fit in my car), the total cost was ~$1,000. If we needed to rent a car twice in a year due to owning a range-limited EV, that would effectively add ~$167/mo to the cost of ownership of the EV.

emodendroket 5y ago
Yes, of course, that's what is in their heads. But it is a strange notion of "convenience" to be locked into certain patterns of living and purchase just to make sure we can easily do something we do very occasionally. I'm not sure where you rented, but from what I've seen a typical car rental is $40/day. It'd have to be long road trips before that really added up.
- listenallyall 5y ago
  $40 is almost surely a pre-pandemic number, as rental cars have mostly doubled or more since. Go see what a car costs in Southern California, or Albuquerque, for example. Further, that price is without any insurance, and likely a small car, while plenty of people going on a road trip need a much larger car to fit the whole family + luggage + extras like camping equipment, the dog, etc.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    Not so. I actually rented a car in LA a few weeks ago, which is why I had the figure in mind. See for yourself: https://i.imgur.com/aWL365O.png https://i.imgur.com/aWL365O.png Vans appear to be slightly more expensive but not outrageously so (and honestly it's not at all uncommon to get a free upgrade when you book the economy car). As for insurance, why would our hypothetical family need to get insurance? Surely they already have it, if they have a car that they drive.
    - listenallyall 5y ago
      $411 for a 7-day rental (the cheapest total in your screenshot) is quite a bit more than $40/day, last I checked. Further, there's simply no way to fit a family and luggage into a Kia Rio-sized car. Cheap/free upgrade? Sure, but not economy to van/SUV, more like economy to intermediate. I'll grant you that insurance isn't necessary (or even advisable), however plenty of people feel more secure getting the (very expensive) protection given the risk of driving an unfamiliar car to likely unfamiliar locations. Still, glad to see prices coming down. I paid $80/day for 3 days in June and $75 (after a discount) in July.
    - runako 5y ago
      This is great pricing if your party is 2-3 people. However, that doesn't describe many American living situations. In our case, we would need a larger vehicle for a trip. Expedia is currently quoting me $700-$1,100 for the week you searched for a non-luxury vehicle like a Nissan Pathfinder. This doesn't include insurance or other add-ons, which I typically decline. (It's outside my risk tolerance to reserve an economy car and gamble that I will arrive at the airport to be delighted by a complementary upgrade to a vehicle large enough to transport my party.)
      - emodendroket 5y ago
        If you look on the side bar they're offering vans for slightly more. Maybe you should switch to Priceline.
        runako 5y ago
        Possibly, but I did my search from the airport closest to me and not LA. That's likely the dominant factor.
- runako 5y ago
  > But it is a strange notion of "convenience" to be locked into certain patterns of living and purchase just to make sure we can easily do something we do very occasionally. Tech folks can make this argument, but it's a well-studied phenomenon that technologies have trouble gaining wide adoption until they are seen as credible replacements for existing usage patterns. Can either seek to convince millions of people to change their behavior (and show them why) or improve the product to better fit existing patterns. Which is easier depends on the characteristics of the product category. My take is EVs are so similar to ICE vehicles that they will have to fairly closely approximate ICE capabilities to get to (say) 50% penetration. And that likely means they will need to support the fairly common (in America) use case of driving a half day (4-5 hours) in the hot summer, laden with weight, without adding too much drama for charging.

by runako 5y ago

emodendroket 5y ago

Yes, of course, that's what is in their heads. But it is a strange notion of "convenience" to be locked into certain patterns of living and purchase just to make sure we can easily do something we do very occasionally. I'm not sure where you rented, but from what I've seen a typical car rental is $40/day. It'd have to be long road trips before that really added up.

listenallyall 5y ago
$40 is almost surely a pre-pandemic number, as rental cars have mostly doubled or more since. Go see what a car costs in Southern California, or Albuquerque, for example. Further, that price is without any insurance, and likely a small car, while plenty of people going on a road trip need a much larger car to fit the whole family + luggage + extras like camping equipment, the dog, etc.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Not so. I actually rented a car in LA a few weeks ago, which is why I had the figure in mind. See for yourself: https://i.imgur.com/aWL365O.png https://i.imgur.com/aWL365O.png Vans appear to be slightly more expensive but not outrageously so (and honestly it's not at all uncommon to get a free upgrade when you book the economy car). As for insurance, why would our hypothetical family need to get insurance? Surely they already have it, if they have a car that they drive.
  - listenallyall 5y ago
    $411 for a 7-day rental (the cheapest total in your screenshot) is quite a bit more than $40/day, last I checked. Further, there's simply no way to fit a family and luggage into a Kia Rio-sized car. Cheap/free upgrade? Sure, but not economy to van/SUV, more like economy to intermediate. I'll grant you that insurance isn't necessary (or even advisable), however plenty of people feel more secure getting the (very expensive) protection given the risk of driving an unfamiliar car to likely unfamiliar locations. Still, glad to see prices coming down. I paid $80/day for 3 days in June and $75 (after a discount) in July.
  - runako 5y ago
    This is great pricing if your party is 2-3 people. However, that doesn't describe many American living situations. In our case, we would need a larger vehicle for a trip. Expedia is currently quoting me $700-$1,100 for the week you searched for a non-luxury vehicle like a Nissan Pathfinder. This doesn't include insurance or other add-ons, which I typically decline. (It's outside my risk tolerance to reserve an economy car and gamble that I will arrive at the airport to be delighted by a complementary upgrade to a vehicle large enough to transport my party.)
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      If you look on the side bar they're offering vans for slightly more. Maybe you should switch to Priceline.
      - runako 5y ago
        Possibly, but I did my search from the airport closest to me and not LA. That's likely the dominant factor.
runako 5y ago
> But it is a strange notion of "convenience" to be locked into certain patterns of living and purchase just to make sure we can easily do something we do very occasionally. Tech folks can make this argument, but it's a well-studied phenomenon that technologies have trouble gaining wide adoption until they are seen as credible replacements for existing usage patterns. Can either seek to convince millions of people to change their behavior (and show them why) or improve the product to better fit existing patterns. Which is easier depends on the characteristics of the product category. My take is EVs are so similar to ICE vehicles that they will have to fairly closely approximate ICE capabilities to get to (say) 50% penetration. And that likely means they will need to support the fairly common (in America) use case of driving a half day (4-5 hours) in the hot summer, laden with weight, without adding too much drama for charging.