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It didn't help that the WHO released the updated guidelines the day Biden was inaugurated. For that reason alone it became another thought-terminating politica

It didn't help that the WHO released the updated guidelines the day Biden was inaugurated. For that reason alone it became another thought-terminating political topic -- you're either dismissed as a conspiracy theorist for correlating these events, or you're dismissing the value of the vaccine rollout/lockdowns/other measures, or you're a sheep following the dominant media narrative.

beerandt 5y ago
It's harder to dismiss when you also consider the first vaccine approvals kept getting delayed until they were released immediately after the election.
- javagram 5y ago
  Note that it was hardly “delayed” since all initial predictions for the vaccine to be approved were around 12 months, in the end it only took about 10 months. Reports last year indicated Trump’s own FDA was responsible for setting out the needed time for data gathering and review that pushed it into mid-November. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-okays-fda-months-monitoring-delaying-vaccine/story?id=73454563 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-okays-fda-months... Meanwhile other countries including China and Russia didn’t approve their own vaccines faster, seeming to indicate the timeline had little to do with U.S. politics.
  - jimmygrapes 5y ago
    It is worth considering that maybe Sinovac (and whatever the Russian one(s) is/are called) may have been released far earlier than they would have been if the U.S. and others had not developed their own faster. Think of space wars - even if you lose the race to first, you still want to be in 2nd vs 500th. If they were developed at a more traditional pace, would they be more effective? Would any of them be? And what would be the consequences of waiting? Would it be millions more deaths, or would natural herd immunity emerge? Both? Would the more virulent variants have appeared without a marginally effective strain evolving as a result of marginally effective vaccines?
    - javagram 5y ago
      The alpha variant (B117) emerged in the UK in November 2020, there’s no indication it had anything to do with vaccines. The delta variant (B.1.617) was detected in India in October 2020. So saying the vaccines caused these variants to evolve would suggest that vaccination also has a time-travel component?
  - areyousure 5y ago
    Both Russia and China started using their vaccines in August 2020: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-claims-first-coronavirus-vaccine-without-providing-evidence-n1236354 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-claims-first-corona... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-vaccines-idUSKBN25O0Z3 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-...
    - javagram 5y ago
      As your article notes, Russia was similar to allowing people to join the phase 3 trial. It was not a widespread deployment of vaccines and was not analogous to the EUA for Pfizer and moderna. “In effect, Russia will be conducting its Phase 3 trials live, treating it more as a demonstrator group than a control group meant to ensure there is nothing dangerous awaiting the larger population. The first two phases involved just a few dozen volunteers. Phase 3 trials will be conducted not only in Russia but in partner countries including the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, Dmitriev said in Tuesday's statement.” According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_V_COVID-19_vaccine#Authorizations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_V_COVID-19_vaccine#Aut... the first authorizations outside Russia occurred in December 2020. Similarly for the Chinese vaccine it took time for the trial results to arrive. Sinovac was approved for general use in February 2021, months after the FDA had authorized Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3120855/covid-19-china-approves-sinovac-vaccine-general-public-use https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3120855/covi...
    - CogitoCogito 5y ago
      Aren't their vaccines significantly less effective than Moderna, Pfizer, etc.? In that case, I'm not sure we should let their earlier release reflect negatively on those that took longer to be ready. On the contrary, maybe we should instead consider the possibility that the Russian and Chinese vaccines were rushed.
kook_throwaway 5y ago
That definitely smelled like an intentional muddying of the waters.
vmception 5y ago
Things that occur after the election, such as changing testing standards, do not affect the election so what does correlating these events have to do with anything while ignoring verifiable causation, such as the WHO already having documents about these changes going back to September 2020

beerandt 5y ago

It's harder to dismiss when you also consider the first vaccine approvals kept getting delayed until they were released immediately after the election.

javagram 5y ago
Note that it was hardly “delayed” since all initial predictions for the vaccine to be approved were around 12 months, in the end it only took about 10 months. Reports last year indicated Trump’s own FDA was responsible for setting out the needed time for data gathering and review that pushed it into mid-November. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-okays-fda-months-monitoring-delaying-vaccine/story?id=73454563 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-okays-fda-months... Meanwhile other countries including China and Russia didn’t approve their own vaccines faster, seeming to indicate the timeline had little to do with U.S. politics.
- jimmygrapes 5y ago
  It is worth considering that maybe Sinovac (and whatever the Russian one(s) is/are called) may have been released far earlier than they would have been if the U.S. and others had not developed their own faster. Think of space wars - even if you lose the race to first, you still want to be in 2nd vs 500th. If they were developed at a more traditional pace, would they be more effective? Would any of them be? And what would be the consequences of waiting? Would it be millions more deaths, or would natural herd immunity emerge? Both? Would the more virulent variants have appeared without a marginally effective strain evolving as a result of marginally effective vaccines?
  - javagram 5y ago
    The alpha variant (B117) emerged in the UK in November 2020, there’s no indication it had anything to do with vaccines. The delta variant (B.1.617) was detected in India in October 2020. So saying the vaccines caused these variants to evolve would suggest that vaccination also has a time-travel component?
- areyousure 5y ago
  Both Russia and China started using their vaccines in August 2020: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-claims-first-coronavirus-vaccine-without-providing-evidence-n1236354 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-claims-first-corona... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-vaccines-idUSKBN25O0Z3 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-...
  - javagram 5y ago
    As your article notes, Russia was similar to allowing people to join the phase 3 trial. It was not a widespread deployment of vaccines and was not analogous to the EUA for Pfizer and moderna. “In effect, Russia will be conducting its Phase 3 trials live, treating it more as a demonstrator group than a control group meant to ensure there is nothing dangerous awaiting the larger population. The first two phases involved just a few dozen volunteers. Phase 3 trials will be conducted not only in Russia but in partner countries including the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, Dmitriev said in Tuesday's statement.” According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_V_COVID-19_vaccine#Authorizations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_V_COVID-19_vaccine#Aut... the first authorizations outside Russia occurred in December 2020. Similarly for the Chinese vaccine it took time for the trial results to arrive. Sinovac was approved for general use in February 2021, months after the FDA had authorized Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3120855/covid-19-china-approves-sinovac-vaccine-general-public-use https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3120855/covi...
  - CogitoCogito 5y ago
    Aren't their vaccines significantly less effective than Moderna, Pfizer, etc.? In that case, I'm not sure we should let their earlier release reflect negatively on those that took longer to be ready. On the contrary, maybe we should instead consider the possibility that the Russian and Chinese vaccines were rushed.

kook_throwaway 5y ago

That definitely smelled like an intentional muddying of the waters.

vmception 5y ago

Things that occur after the election, such as changing testing standards, do not affect the election so what does correlating these events have to do with anything while ignoring verifiable causation, such as the WHO already having documents about these changes going back to September 2020