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There are increasingly more and more chargers everywhere now. Especially 100kw+ rapid chargers are getting more and more common. A lot of the petrol stations h

There are increasingly more and more chargers everywhere now. Especially 100kw+ rapid chargers are getting more and more common. A lot of the petrol stations here in London now also have multiple 100kw+ chargers. Even when looking at non-exotica every-day vehicles like current-gen nissan leaf you get ~200 miles of range, and can recharge 240mph (more than 4 miles per minute) [1] More recent cars getting launched now (and again, not necessarily exotic brands, but even Hyundai and VW) have even faster charging rates. So even a 15 minute break for the toilet and getting a takeout coffee will give you 60 miles of range. Stop for 45mins for lunch? Add 180 miles of charge, or 3 more hours of driving at 60 when you might want to stop again for a toilet break or to stretch your legs. If you truly need to drive for 7 or 8 hours (400-500 miles at 60) without any kind of significant breaks on a regular basis, then I'd argue that you are probably taking quite a risk to your safety (and those around you - both inside and outside your car) due to tiredness. 1 - https://ev-database.uk/car/1144/Nissan-Leaf-eplus https://ev-database.uk/car/1144/Nissan-Leaf-eplus

packetlost 5y ago
That's great, but the USA is an entirely different story. > If you truly need to drive for 7 or 8 hours (400-500 miles at 60) without any kind of significant breaks on a regular basis, then I'd argue that you are probably taking quite a risk to your safety (and those around you - both inside and outside your car) due to tiredness. I've done 350~ mile trips pretty often (about 5 1/2-6 hours) and I usually only stop for 10-15 min to go to the bathroom and fuel up. Driving for a few more hours isn't really that bad, and very common in countries with 10x the square mileage of yours.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  I have lived here for my whole life and I wouldn’t agree that it’s “very common” to do.
  - dlivingston 5y ago
    It probably depends where in the country you are. Here in New Mexico, I make > 4 hour drives at least twice a month, and most people I know have similar driving habits.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      I could believe that. Density drops off pretty fast outside the East Coast and the westernmost post of the West Coast.
    - packetlost 5y ago
      It depends heavily. I'm in the Midwest. There's 200-500 miles between major cities, not to mention all the small rural areas further north.
- avianlyric 5y ago
  I think you'll be amazed at what modern electric cars can do. The Tesla Model 3 can easily add 100 miles in 10-15 mins if its battery is 30% or lower. That isn't theoretical performance, that's actual real-world performance that I've seen. That plus the ~250 miles of range the Model 3 LR has (again real-world range, without making any effort to conserve energy) means you can realistically to your ~350 mile trip with little to no change to total trip duration. Now the Model 3 may be a premium vehicle, but EV development is only just getting started. Within the next few year we'll be seeing cars with similar performance for half the price. That tied with the rapid expansion of 150kw and 250kw chargers means that in the next 5 years, doing your theoretical road trip, with only one 10-15min break, will be possible in almost any new ~$30k electric car.
  - packetlost 5y ago
    The performance and charging network right now is not adequate for most people I know. Maybe it will be in 5 years, but I give it 10.
    - Noos 5y ago
      And there are very few actual electrics on the road. I don't think it will be sustainable at all at scale. The time to charge simply is too long for any form of quick charging to exist widespread, and quick charging won't really work with an existing gas station model. They wont be able to service too many cars to make money on incidental purchases.
      - packetlost 5y ago
        Yup, the gas station model is not going to work for that. IMO EVs have a very specific niche: commuters from suburbs/surrounding areas. For nearly every other situation EVs are poorly suited. For rural areas where heavy equipment is king, EVs range and utility just isn't there and probably won't be for a long time. For dense urban areas, public transport and personal vehicles (such as eBikes) are better for most people.
        5y ago
- mattlondon 5y ago
  Size of the country has no impact on this - people become tired and distracted during long drives. At least here in Europe there are laws (for commercial drivers) about how long you are allowed to drive for, and when you must take breaks, e.g.: > "you must not drive more than: 9 hours in a day - this can be extended to 10 hours twice a week" > "a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes after no more than 4 hours 30 minutes driving" Perhaps the US has zero laws in this regard, but these sort of rules exist due to lots of lessons learned by tired drivers killing people. Sure these are for commercial drivers, but I'd argue that if you are doing this sort of long-distance driving frequently (i.e. not just once or twice a year) then you are no different from a commercial driver and shouldn't assume these common sense laws don't apply.
  - packetlost 5y ago
    The US has similar laws, you must take a 30 minute break after 8 consecutive hours of driving and you can only drive 11 hours in a day. The point I was trying to make has nothing to do with how long you can drive safely in a day. 8 hours is still within safe limits according to our government. > Size of the country has no impact on this - people become tired and distracted during long drives. But size of the country (and more importantly, density) has a massive impact on how far people drive and how frequently.
    - ycnews 5y ago
      Commercial truck drivers yes, private individuals: not that I'm aware of (reference needed).
  - leoedin 5y ago
    Long distance driving in a sparsely populated country is quite different to long distance driving in a densely populated one. Driving the length of the UK means passing by 3 or 4 major cities. The road gets wider, motorways merge, traffic gets heavy, maybe there's a traffic jam or traffic lights, the drivers are mostly local and get more aggressive. It becomes mentally taxing. Driving long distance when there's nothing around (eg the M6 between Preston and Glasgow) is so much simpler. You can definitely drive longer when you're not constantly negotiating city-adjacent traffic.
nathanaldensr 5y ago
Your argument about tiredness is how we end up down the slippery slope every single time with government regulating away our rights. Human freedom is more important than being safe 100% of the time, whether your assertion is true or untrue. I don't need anyone telling me I'm being unsafe and then restricting my freedoms because of that. I'm looking forward to my upcoming beach vacation where I will drive 6.5 hours without many breaks, and it'll be as uninteresting to do so as spending those 6.5 hours doing anything else.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  What about my freedom not to be plowed into by some half-asleep yahoo? Really you can cast an argument for anything at all in terms of freedom if you want.
- avianlyric 5y ago
  Yeah you tell that to families of all the people killed by drivers who fall asleep at the wheel. I'm sure they'll be really glad you're fighting for their rights to inflict that pain on others.
- snotrockets 5y ago
  Reminds me both of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ and the all too common headscratcher: is it a comment from a real libertarian idiot or a case of poe's law?
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    You've got to admit, the toaster guy has a lot more personality than Gary Johnson.
    - snotrockets 5y ago
      An ill fitting suit isn't a personality, but bad tailoring. Re toasters, I just recalled that at a previous office, we had a toaster that was confiscated by building management, as we indeed lacked a proper license to use it in the building. But I guess that's ok, as this was mandated by the leasing contractual agreements, rather than being action that is overseen by elected officials.
turtlebits 5y ago
Charging speed depends on the car. My Bolt (and the current Bolt and Bolt EUV) max charges at 50kw. In actuality, it's between 15 and 34kw (depending on weather). If I have to fast charge, it's over an hour to get to 80%.
- delecti 5y ago
  An hour to get to 80% of the 2017-2019 Bolt's 238 mile advertised capacity isn't far from the numbers in the comment you replied to. That's 60 minutes to get 190 miles, compared to the comment's 45 minutes for 180 miles (4 miles/minute vs 3 miles/minute).
dahfizz 5y ago
> Even when looking at non-exotica every-day vehicles like current-gen nissan leaf you get ~200 miles of range, and can recharge 240mph (more than 4 miles per minute). You also can only fast charge the Nissan leaf once per day max because of the battery cooling issues. That's also assuming you come across two working fast chargers in a day, which is far from guaranteed. Non-supercharging infrastructure is pretty unreliable.
canadianfella 5y ago
> 15 minute break for the toilet and getting a takeout coffee will give you 60 miles of ran That sounds terrible to a Canadian. 15 minutes every hour?

packetlost 5y ago

That's great, but the USA is an entirely different story. > If you truly need to drive for 7 or 8 hours (400-500 miles at 60) without any kind of significant breaks on a regular basis, then I'd argue that you are probably taking quite a risk to your safety (and those around you - both inside and outside your car) due to tiredness. I've done 350~ mile trips pretty often (about 5 1/2-6 hours) and I usually only stop for 10-15 min to go to the bathroom and fuel up. Driving for a few more hours isn't really that bad, and very common in countries with 10x the square mileage of yours.

emodendroket 5y ago
I have lived here for my whole life and I wouldn’t agree that it’s “very common” to do.
- dlivingston 5y ago
  It probably depends where in the country you are. Here in New Mexico, I make > 4 hour drives at least twice a month, and most people I know have similar driving habits.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    I could believe that. Density drops off pretty fast outside the East Coast and the westernmost post of the West Coast.
  - packetlost 5y ago
    It depends heavily. I'm in the Midwest. There's 200-500 miles between major cities, not to mention all the small rural areas further north.
avianlyric 5y ago
I think you'll be amazed at what modern electric cars can do. The Tesla Model 3 can easily add 100 miles in 10-15 mins if its battery is 30% or lower. That isn't theoretical performance, that's actual real-world performance that I've seen. That plus the ~250 miles of range the Model 3 LR has (again real-world range, without making any effort to conserve energy) means you can realistically to your ~350 mile trip with little to no change to total trip duration. Now the Model 3 may be a premium vehicle, but EV development is only just getting started. Within the next few year we'll be seeing cars with similar performance for half the price. That tied with the rapid expansion of 150kw and 250kw chargers means that in the next 5 years, doing your theoretical road trip, with only one 10-15min break, will be possible in almost any new ~$30k electric car.
- packetlost 5y ago
  The performance and charging network right now is not adequate for most people I know. Maybe it will be in 5 years, but I give it 10.
  - Noos 5y ago
    And there are very few actual electrics on the road. I don't think it will be sustainable at all at scale. The time to charge simply is too long for any form of quick charging to exist widespread, and quick charging won't really work with an existing gas station model. They wont be able to service too many cars to make money on incidental purchases.
    - packetlost 5y ago
      Yup, the gas station model is not going to work for that. IMO EVs have a very specific niche: commuters from suburbs/surrounding areas. For nearly every other situation EVs are poorly suited. For rural areas where heavy equipment is king, EVs range and utility just isn't there and probably won't be for a long time. For dense urban areas, public transport and personal vehicles (such as eBikes) are better for most people.
      - 5y ago
mattlondon 5y ago
Size of the country has no impact on this - people become tired and distracted during long drives. At least here in Europe there are laws (for commercial drivers) about how long you are allowed to drive for, and when you must take breaks, e.g.: > "you must not drive more than: 9 hours in a day - this can be extended to 10 hours twice a week" > "a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes after no more than 4 hours 30 minutes driving" Perhaps the US has zero laws in this regard, but these sort of rules exist due to lots of lessons learned by tired drivers killing people. Sure these are for commercial drivers, but I'd argue that if you are doing this sort of long-distance driving frequently (i.e. not just once or twice a year) then you are no different from a commercial driver and shouldn't assume these common sense laws don't apply.
- packetlost 5y ago
  The US has similar laws, you must take a 30 minute break after 8 consecutive hours of driving and you can only drive 11 hours in a day. The point I was trying to make has nothing to do with how long you can drive safely in a day. 8 hours is still within safe limits according to our government. > Size of the country has no impact on this - people become tired and distracted during long drives. But size of the country (and more importantly, density) has a massive impact on how far people drive and how frequently.
  - ycnews 5y ago
    Commercial truck drivers yes, private individuals: not that I'm aware of (reference needed).
- leoedin 5y ago
  Long distance driving in a sparsely populated country is quite different to long distance driving in a densely populated one. Driving the length of the UK means passing by 3 or 4 major cities. The road gets wider, motorways merge, traffic gets heavy, maybe there's a traffic jam or traffic lights, the drivers are mostly local and get more aggressive. It becomes mentally taxing. Driving long distance when there's nothing around (eg the M6 between Preston and Glasgow) is so much simpler. You can definitely drive longer when you're not constantly negotiating city-adjacent traffic.

nathanaldensr 5y ago

Your argument about tiredness is how we end up down the slippery slope every single time with government regulating away our rights. Human freedom is more important than being safe 100% of the time, whether your assertion is true or untrue. I don't need anyone telling me I'm being unsafe and then restricting my freedoms because of that. I'm looking forward to my upcoming beach vacation where I will drive 6.5 hours without many breaks, and it'll be as uninteresting to do so as spending those 6.5 hours doing anything else.

emodendroket 5y ago
What about my freedom not to be plowed into by some half-asleep yahoo? Really you can cast an argument for anything at all in terms of freedom if you want.
avianlyric 5y ago
Yeah you tell that to families of all the people killed by drivers who fall asleep at the wheel. I'm sure they'll be really glad you're fighting for their rights to inflict that pain on others.
snotrockets 5y ago
Reminds me both of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ and the all too common headscratcher: is it a comment from a real libertarian idiot or a case of poe's law?
- emodendroket 5y ago
  You've got to admit, the toaster guy has a lot more personality than Gary Johnson.
  - snotrockets 5y ago
    An ill fitting suit isn't a personality, but bad tailoring. Re toasters, I just recalled that at a previous office, we had a toaster that was confiscated by building management, as we indeed lacked a proper license to use it in the building. But I guess that's ok, as this was mandated by the leasing contractual agreements, rather than being action that is overseen by elected officials.

turtlebits 5y ago

Charging speed depends on the car. My Bolt (and the current Bolt and Bolt EUV) max charges at 50kw. In actuality, it's between 15 and 34kw (depending on weather). If I have to fast charge, it's over an hour to get to 80%.

delecti 5y ago
An hour to get to 80% of the 2017-2019 Bolt's 238 mile advertised capacity isn't far from the numbers in the comment you replied to. That's 60 minutes to get 190 miles, compared to the comment's 45 minutes for 180 miles (4 miles/minute vs 3 miles/minute).

dahfizz 5y ago

> Even when looking at non-exotica every-day vehicles like current-gen nissan leaf you get ~200 miles of range, and can recharge 240mph (more than 4 miles per minute). You also can only fast charge the Nissan leaf once per day max because of the battery cooling issues. That's also assuming you come across two working fast chargers in a day, which is far from guaranteed. Non-supercharging infrastructure is pretty unreliable.

canadianfella 5y ago

> 15 minute break for the toilet and getting a takeout coffee will give you 60 miles of ran That sounds terrible to a Canadian. 15 minutes every hour?