4 ms·

1) offtopic 2) The Israeli military said the structures had been built illegally.

by Zhenya 5y ago

radycov 5y ago
Actually it's entirely on topic because it shows an alternative reality starkly juxtaposed against humanitarian propaganda. I have no doubt if this was China or Russia or Saudi Arabia being discussed it would be fair game. Israel deserves to be held to a far higher level of scrutiny given its military might is entirely funded by US tax payers and AIPAC controlled Congress.
- Zhenya 5y ago
  This one is easy: US provides Israel with roughly $5-6B in military funding which has to be spent back with US suppliers (please add details if anyone has it) The total IDF budget in 2011 (latest I could find and has increased) is over $20b. more reading: -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Budget https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Budget -https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/4/infographic-what-you-need-to-know-about-israels-military https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/4/infographic-what-you... (aljazeera of all places!) I dont think $6B=$20B.
  - throwaway210222 5y ago
    (aljazeera of all places!) Curious why you find that curious.
    - jkkorn 5y ago
      "Al Jazeera is a Qatari government-funded international Arabic news channel based in Doha" I don't think they've ever produced anything remotely truthful about the region. ever. That's why it's curious
      - radycov 5y ago
        When even AP wouldn't dare criticise Israel for destroying its building in Gaza, it's clear there's a need for a counter narrative to the one sided propaganda. And the one Jewish woman who dared to open her mouth was immediately fired: https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Emily-Wilder-Associated-Press-Israel-Palestine-AP-16192391.php https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Emily-Wilder-Associa...
        jkkorn 5y ago
        Oh but AP did criticise at first...but the editor did admit there was a Hamas presence in the building https://www.businessinsider.com/former-associated-press-editor-suggests-hamas-in-gaza-city-building-2021-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/former-associated-press-edit... Going back to the AlJazeera aspect: Qatar funds Hamas (one source cites 400m USD in 2014) AND provides the "right media coverage" through AlJazeera. From where I'm standing it doesn't look like there is one sided propaganda
        throwaway210222 5y ago
        > but the editor did admit there was a Hamas presence in the building Ah, so its OK to drop bombs on the entire building then? So, by extrapolation, if there is a Hamas teacher or a Hamas nurse in a school or hospital, then the IDF can wipe those out too? Nice.
        jkkorn 5y ago
        wait what's a Hamas teacher or a Hamas nurse? Look at Al-Shifa hospital. Built by the Israelis, today a hospital, rocket launch site, bunker and ammunitions cache all in one. IDF's responsibility is to keep Israeli citizens safe(jews, muslims and christians). If someone across the border is using firing thousands of rockets at civilians then the IDF is going to step in. Unfortunately the retaliation which will lead to the fewest civilian deaths will be bombing the launch site ( a civilian building). What's the alternative? Mount a massive land invasion into a booby trapped hell hole?
  - TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
    The comment you replied to was hyperbolic, but it has a point. Why are my taxes going towards paying for 30% of Israel's military?? They do nothing to improve the safety and stability of my country, in fact they increase geopolitical tensions.
SrslyJosh 5y ago
> 2) The Israeli military said the structures had been built illegally. Well of course they did. Would any military say otherwise in the same situation?
mustafa_pasi 5y ago
It is very much on topic. If they want to be seen as humanitarians they need to stop committing war crimes and other atrocities in their backyard. Morality does not subscribe to some kind of arithmetic where doing good deeds can somehow cancel the evil that you also commit.
pvaldes 5y ago
> The Israeli military said the structures had been built illegally. Is not the job of the army to declare what is legal or illegal in a democracy. Countries have a judicature system for that. A bomb destroying your home with one minute warning is not equivalent to a court order, and can't replace it. Would be seen in any real democracy with a minimum respect by the rule of law as a ridiculously illegal move (and severely prosecuted).

1) offtopic 2) The Israeli military said the structures had been built illegally.

by Zhenya 5y ago

1) offtopic 2) The Israeli military said the structures had been built illegally.

Actually it's entirely on topic because it shows an alternative reality starkly juxtaposed against humanitarian propaganda. I have no doubt if this was China or Russia or Saudi Arabia being discussed it would be fair game. Israel deserves to be held to a far higher level of scrutiny given its military might is entirely funded by US tax payers and AIPAC controlled Congress.

Zhenya 5y ago
This one is easy: US provides Israel with roughly $5-6B in military funding which has to be spent back with US suppliers (please add details if anyone has it) The total IDF budget in 2011 (latest I could find and has increased) is over $20b. more reading: -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Budget https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Budget -https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/4/infographic-what-you-need-to-know-about-israels-military https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/4/infographic-what-you... (aljazeera of all places!) I dont think $6B=$20B.
- throwaway210222 5y ago
  (aljazeera of all places!) Curious why you find that curious.
  - jkkorn 5y ago
    "Al Jazeera is a Qatari government-funded international Arabic news channel based in Doha" I don't think they've ever produced anything remotely truthful about the region. ever. That's why it's curious
    - radycov 5y ago
      When even AP wouldn't dare criticise Israel for destroying its building in Gaza, it's clear there's a need for a counter narrative to the one sided propaganda. And the one Jewish woman who dared to open her mouth was immediately fired: https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Emily-Wilder-Associated-Press-Israel-Palestine-AP-16192391.php https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Emily-Wilder-Associa...
      - jkkorn 5y ago
        Oh but AP did criticise at first...but the editor did admit there was a Hamas presence in the building https://www.businessinsider.com/former-associated-press-editor-suggests-hamas-in-gaza-city-building-2021-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/former-associated-press-edit... Going back to the AlJazeera aspect: Qatar funds Hamas (one source cites 400m USD in 2014) AND provides the "right media coverage" through AlJazeera. From where I'm standing it doesn't look like there is one sided propaganda
        throwaway210222 5y ago
        > but the editor did admit there was a Hamas presence in the building Ah, so its OK to drop bombs on the entire building then? So, by extrapolation, if there is a Hamas teacher or a Hamas nurse in a school or hospital, then the IDF can wipe those out too? Nice.
        jkkorn 5y ago
        wait what's a Hamas teacher or a Hamas nurse? Look at Al-Shifa hospital. Built by the Israelis, today a hospital, rocket launch site, bunker and ammunitions cache all in one. IDF's responsibility is to keep Israeli citizens safe(jews, muslims and christians). If someone across the border is using firing thousands of rockets at civilians then the IDF is going to step in. Unfortunately the retaliation which will lead to the fewest civilian deaths will be bombing the launch site ( a civilian building). What's the alternative? Mount a massive land invasion into a booby trapped hell hole?
- TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
  The comment you replied to was hyperbolic, but it has a point. Why are my taxes going towards paying for 30% of Israel's military?? They do nothing to improve the safety and stability of my country, in fact they increase geopolitical tensions.

SrslyJosh 5y ago

> 2) The Israeli military said the structures had been built illegally. Well of course they did. Would any military say otherwise in the same situation?

mustafa_pasi 5y ago

It is very much on topic. If they want to be seen as humanitarians they need to stop committing war crimes and other atrocities in their backyard. Morality does not subscribe to some kind of arithmetic where doing good deeds can somehow cancel the evil that you also commit.

pvaldes 5y ago

> The Israeli military said the structures had been built illegally. Is not the job of the army to declare what is legal or illegal in a democracy. Countries have a judicature system for that. A bomb destroying your home with one minute warning is not equivalent to a court order, and can't replace it. Would be seen in any real democracy with a minimum respect by the rule of law as a ridiculously illegal move (and severely prosecuted).