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Jimmy - peeling apart your statement: Israel is not pretending to get involved; they sent personnel who helped remove people from the rubble. Your warcrimes c

by Zhenya 5y ago

Jimmy - peeling apart your statement: Israel is not pretending to get involved; they sent personnel who helped remove people from the rubble. Your warcrimes comment is not fact based; so I feel nothing about that. In conclusion 1) israel sent this team and they did help 2) how can i possibly know the intent, all we can see is the action, and it is help.

jimmy2020 5y ago
> all we can see is the action Have you seen IDF actions in Gaza?
- Zhenya 5y ago
  Yes - war is bad. Israel is always ready for peace. I can link you to a list of all the offers that have been made for peace. Additionally, you do know that there is no IDF in Gaza and that Gaza shares a border also with Egypt (strangely they keep it closed). They are free to live there peacefully and grow their prosperity. Have you seen Hamas' work in Gaza: https://news.yahoo.com/gaza-city-blast-kills-1-091252256.html https://news.yahoo.com/gaza-city-blast-kills-1-091252256.htm... Jimmy - since I cant reply to your comment below: No this is not about hamas, but neither was this about Gaza. This was about rescuing people from a collapsed building. Yet here we are.
  - jimmy2020 5y ago
    > Have you seen Hamas? Is the thread about Hamas? Or is it a try to change the subject?
    - jkkorn 5y ago
      I don't know what's going on. This was supposed to be about "the idf doing humanitarian work in florida and helping with the rescue" seconds later the scope has become "everything israel does is wrong, look at gaza, something something apartheid"
      - SrslyJosh 5y ago
        Sorry that reality is crashing your propaganda party, dude. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
        jkkorn 5y ago
        it's all good ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ cool to critisize anything and anyone. It just comes off as a very different vibe when compared to other HN discussions. Everyone here is so smart and inquisitive, but when the issue is middle east the gang seems to take a shallow, dogmatic take on something they absolutely do not understand. For so many independent thinkers there's a lot of knee jerk group think
        krapp 5y ago
        >but when the issue is middle east the gang seems to take a shallow, dogmatic take on something they absolutely do not understand. For so many independent thinkers there's a lot of knee jerk group think And China. And American foreign policy. And anything related to or that even mentions sex, gender or race. And the media. And economics. And COVID. And RMS. This place is legendary for its aggressively ignorant and toxic hot takes on just about everything but technology[0], especially if it requires empathy, emotional reasoning or an understanding of mainstream society. [0] With the possible exception of Javascript or the modern web in general, mention of either of which sometimes sends people into a frothing rage.
        AzzieElbab 5y ago
        HN dogmas on Israel match exactly what I was taught in my soviet high-school history class 30+ years ago. Good stuff, highly entertaining nostalgia.
  - RobertoG 5y ago
    >>"Israel is always ready for peace" That I doubt very much. In my opinion we are seeing a clear on going colonization effort. This is not about religion or race, but about land and the rest is a distraction. Because we are not in the eighteen century anymore, it can't be done old European style, so it has to be done boiling frog style with a lot of spending in public relations. The crude fact is that land is being taken by the strongest party: https://sites.psu.edu/anaouf2/files/2017/02/israel-palestine_map_19225_2469-vrwani.jpg https://sites.psu.edu/anaouf2/files/2017/02/israel-palestine... I have not doubt that the IDF did great, but you have to recognize that this article reads like a puff piece.
    - AzzieElbab 5y ago
      Have you observed any evidence that the other side is seeking peace?
  - radycov 5y ago
    No mention of ethnic cleansing and military checkpoint enforced apartheid where kids are harassed by fully armed soldiers? Do you want to see the B'TSelem videos? Here they detail a 5 year old child: https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20130711_soldiers_detain_5_year_old_in_hebron https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20130711_soldiers_det... Or "1 shot 2 kills" military tshirts for killing pregnant Palestnian women? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7960071.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7960071.stm
nix23 5y ago
>Your warcrimes comment is not fact based; so I feel nothing about that. Hmmm: https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a... https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a...
- Zhenya 5y ago
  Strange - Occupied it is not. Defensive removal of rocket infrastructure seems ok. Another question: do fighting nations generally supply electricity, medicine and water to entities raining missles down on their civilians indiscriminately? Great read for the uninformed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_State_of_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_State_of_Palesti...
  - radycov 5y ago
    Ironically, by your own admission, you simply highlighted Israel's infrastructure control on Gaza. So it's not merely a military occupier but controls food, water and electricity supplies to the imprisoned population. But hey, thanks for your generosity to allow a trickle of aid supplies through. "Transfers of fuel for the power plant were stopped by Israel during the Gaza War in May 2021 and resumed by the end of June."
    - Zhenya 5y ago
      They are welcome to get it from egypt with whom they share a border as well.
      - nix23 5y ago
        The gaza-strip shares a border. >Defensive removal of rocket infrastructure seems ok. That's offensive removal of rockets, iron dome is defensive removal of (flying) rockets.
sofixa 5y ago
> Your warcrimes comment is not fact based; so I feel nothing about that Not fact based? I don't know how anyone can possibly deny what Israel is doing is literally war crimes par excellence. Illegally occupying and settling foreign land? Bombing civilians? Open air prison? Multiple armed attacks in foreign countries like Iran and Iraq? The UN, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, among the authorities on human rights and war crimes agree with that.

by Zhenya 5y ago

jimmy2020 5y ago

> all we can see is the action Have you seen IDF actions in Gaza?

Zhenya 5y ago
Yes - war is bad. Israel is always ready for peace. I can link you to a list of all the offers that have been made for peace. Additionally, you do know that there is no IDF in Gaza and that Gaza shares a border also with Egypt (strangely they keep it closed). They are free to live there peacefully and grow their prosperity. Have you seen Hamas' work in Gaza: https://news.yahoo.com/gaza-city-blast-kills-1-091252256.html https://news.yahoo.com/gaza-city-blast-kills-1-091252256.htm... Jimmy - since I cant reply to your comment below: No this is not about hamas, but neither was this about Gaza. This was about rescuing people from a collapsed building. Yet here we are.
- jimmy2020 5y ago
  > Have you seen Hamas? Is the thread about Hamas? Or is it a try to change the subject?
  - jkkorn 5y ago
    I don't know what's going on. This was supposed to be about "the idf doing humanitarian work in florida and helping with the rescue" seconds later the scope has become "everything israel does is wrong, look at gaza, something something apartheid"
    - SrslyJosh 5y ago
      Sorry that reality is crashing your propaganda party, dude. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      - jkkorn 5y ago
        it's all good ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ cool to critisize anything and anyone. It just comes off as a very different vibe when compared to other HN discussions. Everyone here is so smart and inquisitive, but when the issue is middle east the gang seems to take a shallow, dogmatic take on something they absolutely do not understand. For so many independent thinkers there's a lot of knee jerk group think
        krapp 5y ago
        >but when the issue is middle east the gang seems to take a shallow, dogmatic take on something they absolutely do not understand. For so many independent thinkers there's a lot of knee jerk group think And China. And American foreign policy. And anything related to or that even mentions sex, gender or race. And the media. And economics. And COVID. And RMS. This place is legendary for its aggressively ignorant and toxic hot takes on just about everything but technology[0], especially if it requires empathy, emotional reasoning or an understanding of mainstream society. [0] With the possible exception of Javascript or the modern web in general, mention of either of which sometimes sends people into a frothing rage.
        AzzieElbab 5y ago
        HN dogmas on Israel match exactly what I was taught in my soviet high-school history class 30+ years ago. Good stuff, highly entertaining nostalgia.
- RobertoG 5y ago
  >>"Israel is always ready for peace" That I doubt very much. In my opinion we are seeing a clear on going colonization effort. This is not about religion or race, but about land and the rest is a distraction. Because we are not in the eighteen century anymore, it can't be done old European style, so it has to be done boiling frog style with a lot of spending in public relations. The crude fact is that land is being taken by the strongest party: https://sites.psu.edu/anaouf2/files/2017/02/israel-palestine_map_19225_2469-vrwani.jpg https://sites.psu.edu/anaouf2/files/2017/02/israel-palestine... I have not doubt that the IDF did great, but you have to recognize that this article reads like a puff piece.
  - AzzieElbab 5y ago
    Have you observed any evidence that the other side is seeking peace?
- radycov 5y ago
  No mention of ethnic cleansing and military checkpoint enforced apartheid where kids are harassed by fully armed soldiers? Do you want to see the B'TSelem videos? Here they detail a 5 year old child: https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20130711_soldiers_detain_5_year_old_in_hebron https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20130711_soldiers_det... Or "1 shot 2 kills" military tshirts for killing pregnant Palestnian women? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7960071.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7960071.stm

nix23 5y ago

>Your warcrimes comment is not fact based; so I feel nothing about that. Hmmm: https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a... https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a...

Zhenya 5y ago
Strange - Occupied it is not. Defensive removal of rocket infrastructure seems ok. Another question: do fighting nations generally supply electricity, medicine and water to entities raining missles down on their civilians indiscriminately? Great read for the uninformed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_State_of_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_State_of_Palesti...
- radycov 5y ago
  Ironically, by your own admission, you simply highlighted Israel's infrastructure control on Gaza. So it's not merely a military occupier but controls food, water and electricity supplies to the imprisoned population. But hey, thanks for your generosity to allow a trickle of aid supplies through. "Transfers of fuel for the power plant were stopped by Israel during the Gaza War in May 2021 and resumed by the end of June."
  - Zhenya 5y ago
    They are welcome to get it from egypt with whom they share a border as well.
    - nix23 5y ago
      The gaza-strip shares a border. >Defensive removal of rocket infrastructure seems ok. That's offensive removal of rockets, iron dome is defensive removal of (flying) rockets.

sofixa 5y ago

> Your warcrimes comment is not fact based; so I feel nothing about that Not fact based? I don't know how anyone can possibly deny what Israel is doing is literally war crimes par excellence. Illegally occupying and settling foreign land? Bombing civilians? Open air prison? Multiple armed attacks in foreign countries like Iran and Iraq? The UN, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, among the authorities on human rights and war crimes agree with that.