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How is Libera vs. Discord vs. Matrix playing out in the open source community?

by factorialboy 5y ago

kungito 5y ago
but Discord is closed source...
- crazysim 5y ago
  And so is GitHub.
  - account42 5y ago
    Sure, but Discord is more closed than GitHub - at least with GitHub the core part - ie the git repos - can be fully used with the standard open-source git client. If github decides they want to fuck you over, you push your repo somewhere else and go on with your life (issues etc will need more work). If Discord decides to fuck you over, all your content and participants are gone.
normaler 5y ago
I think IRC vs. Matrix does not exist. There is a certain decision what is going to be the main communication source, but then you are going to bridge whatever you have on IRC to whatever you have on matrix.
lucideer 5y ago
I think Libera is (and only intends to be) restricted to catering to the pre-existing Freenode community; their sights are not particularly set on expanding/competing with newer platforms any more than the Freenode community's were. They just cater to people who like & want to stick to IRC, for whatever variety of reasons. I don't see any "growth" (nor "shrinkage") happening here beyond migration of users from Freenode. Discord is not open-source, so I don't see how it's relevant; it's "communities" are primarily gamers & streamers. While there are some open-source communities based on Discord, the same goes for other closed-source platforms such as Slack & Telegram, and I'm sure the number of software development communities on Slack is (sadly) much larger than on Discord. Of actual open-source options: Gitter, Discourse, Rocket, Mattermost, etc. - Matrix would seem to be competing relatively well.
- exciteabletom 5y ago
  > closed-source platforms such as Slack & Telegram I'm pretty sure Telegram is open-source (at least the client) https://github.com/telegramdesktop https://github.com/telegramdesktop
  - lucideer 5y ago
    The server is closed-source, which is all that matters for centralised platforms. An open-source client would be relevant for something P2P like SSB/Manyverse*, but for all other tech the sourcecode of the server will be your primary concern. * And even with something like Manyverse, the sourcecode of things commonly used as "de facto servers", like SSB "pubs", ends up still being extremely relevant in practice just because of the UX of using the platform.
- M2Ys4U 5y ago
  >Of actual open-source options: Gitter Gitter was bought by Element, it's effectively a Matrix client now.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Arathorn 5y ago
Many people use Libera & Matrix interchangeably (although the bridge hasn't been perfect so far, but we're working on improving it). You can get to #foo on libera as #foo:libera.chat on Matrix and it should Just Work™. Discord is... for folks who have got lost.
sundarurfriend 5y ago
Others have mentioned Discord and Slack being closed source, but I'm interested in Zulip as an alternative. I really like the "branch off a topic at any time" that leads to proper distinct threads of conversation that get much easier to follow. And the interface so far seems pretty polished and seamlessly responsive, with rich keyboard shortcut interface too (which I'm yet to learn tbh). I hope it too continues to grow as a good FOSS option.
Macha 5y ago
Libera retained like 90% of the freenode channels, with maybe 5% jumping ship to other IRC networks, mostly OFTC, and 5% jumping ship to Matrix, Discord and Slack, from the posts about channels leaving freenode. Libera is also bridged to Matrix, so Matrix users can participate in Libera channels, so there's also a decent amount of people using Matrix as a glorified bouncer. Very few new communities are setting up on IRC. My impression is that until the Freenode meltdown, Discord was most common, followed by Matrix, then Slack, but the freenode disaster seems to have benefited Matrix more than Discord or Slack. That's if you look at official channels, if you look at user counts in unofficial community groups as well, Discord has to be way in the lead. The Python community discord has about as many online users as Libera in its entirety, for example.

How is Libera vs. Discord vs. Matrix playing out in the open source community?

kungito 5y ago

but Discord is closed source...

crazysim 5y ago
And so is GitHub.
- account42 5y ago
  Sure, but Discord is more closed than GitHub - at least with GitHub the core part - ie the git repos - can be fully used with the standard open-source git client. If github decides they want to fuck you over, you push your repo somewhere else and go on with your life (issues etc will need more work). If Discord decides to fuck you over, all your content and participants are gone.

normaler 5y ago

I think IRC vs. Matrix does not exist. There is a certain decision what is going to be the main communication source, but then you are going to bridge whatever you have on IRC to whatever you have on matrix.

lucideer 5y ago

I think Libera is (and only intends to be) restricted to catering to the pre-existing Freenode community; their sights are not particularly set on expanding/competing with newer platforms any more than the Freenode community's were. They just cater to people who like & want to stick to IRC, for whatever variety of reasons. I don't see any "growth" (nor "shrinkage") happening here beyond migration of users from Freenode. Discord is not open-source, so I don't see how it's relevant; it's "communities" are primarily gamers & streamers. While there are some open-source communities based on Discord, the same goes for other closed-source platforms such as Slack & Telegram, and I'm sure the number of software development communities on Slack is (sadly) much larger than on Discord. Of actual open-source options: Gitter, Discourse, Rocket, Mattermost, etc. - Matrix would seem to be competing relatively well.

exciteabletom 5y ago
> closed-source platforms such as Slack & Telegram I'm pretty sure Telegram is open-source (at least the client) https://github.com/telegramdesktop https://github.com/telegramdesktop
- lucideer 5y ago
  The server is closed-source, which is all that matters for centralised platforms. An open-source client would be relevant for something P2P like SSB/Manyverse*, but for all other tech the sourcecode of the server will be your primary concern. * And even with something like Manyverse, the sourcecode of things commonly used as "de facto servers", like SSB "pubs", ends up still being extremely relevant in practice just because of the UX of using the platform.
M2Ys4U 5y ago
>Of actual open-source options: Gitter Gitter was bought by Element, it's effectively a Matrix client now.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Arathorn 5y ago

Many people use Libera & Matrix interchangeably (although the bridge hasn't been perfect so far, but we're working on improving it). You can get to #foo on libera as #foo:libera.chat on Matrix and it should Just Work™. Discord is... for folks who have got lost.

sundarurfriend 5y ago

Others have mentioned Discord and Slack being closed source, but I'm interested in Zulip as an alternative. I really like the "branch off a topic at any time" that leads to proper distinct threads of conversation that get much easier to follow. And the interface so far seems pretty polished and seamlessly responsive, with rich keyboard shortcut interface too (which I'm yet to learn tbh). I hope it too continues to grow as a good FOSS option.

Macha 5y ago

Libera retained like 90% of the freenode channels, with maybe 5% jumping ship to other IRC networks, mostly OFTC, and 5% jumping ship to Matrix, Discord and Slack, from the posts about channels leaving freenode. Libera is also bridged to Matrix, so Matrix users can participate in Libera channels, so there's also a decent amount of people using Matrix as a glorified bouncer. Very few new communities are setting up on IRC. My impression is that until the Freenode meltdown, Discord was most common, followed by Matrix, then Slack, but the freenode disaster seems to have benefited Matrix more than Discord or Slack. That's if you look at official channels, if you look at user counts in unofficial community groups as well, Discord has to be way in the lead. The Python community discord has about as many online users as Libera in its entirety, for example.