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Safari is not holding back, Safari is just not implementing Google’s PWA (because it doesn’t really make sense on Apple devices where it would be far inferior t

Safari is not holding back, Safari is just not implementing Google’s PWA (because it doesn’t really make sense on Apple devices where it would be far inferior to native). You can make a beautiful site in Safari and it will work everywhere (I do professionally). Chrome is the new IE (2001 era, when it was cutting edge and pushing proprietary technology) except ActiveX is PWA.

tehbeard 5y ago
Safari can't even implement a key value store (indexedDB) correctly... We had whole versions where it was basically stuffed, and even in the recent versions, I'm getting random errors where it just refuses to write to disk. If they don't want to implement PWA, fine, their walled garden and wall that, claim it's for privacy etc etc. just don't half ass all the APIs around it then! Leave them out!
- cuddlecake 5y ago
  > We had whole versions where it was basically stuffed A co-worker asked me "uh, why does the app use 120GB for indexeddb?" Wildest bug I've ever had to deal with. Unfortunately it wasn't even just a safari issue.
kristiandupont 5y ago
>it doesn’t really make sense on Apple devices where it would be far inferior to native Yeah, I get that it doesn't make sense for Apple, business wise -- which is why they are not doing it. But it sure would make sense to developers.
LAC-Tech 5y ago
It makes zero business sense for small-medium companies to make separate android and IOS apps. That's man hours that will be spent on a specific platform and its app store, instead of on improving the core product. PWAs are here to stay.
- tarsinge 5y ago
  It absolutely make sense to make a state of the art app on a platform if it's key to the business. Also resources is not the problem, even big companies (like banks) make low cost web apps instead of native ones if they can. I don't see why Apple should facilitate compromised user experiences instead of setting the bar higher.
  - tinus_hn 5y ago
    Also a PWA can’t compete in quality with a proper native app, should a competitor ever build one you’re toast. The question just revolves around how integral an app is to the business. Online banking probably requires an app. A restaurant that offers online ordering probably does not. A video game requires an app. An online encyclopedia does not.
    - candiddevmike 5y ago
      I think this is wild conjecture. Users don't care as much as you think about "native performance", they care about features and price. PWAs can be iterated faster than native apps, and they circumvent the app store tax. They also let the business control the onboarding and sales funnel vs text only app storefronts filled with garbage.
      - tinus_hn 5y ago
        Native performance is a feature in itself and is not about speed but about UI standards and features. If your statement was true, there wouldn’t have to be any complaints about Apples ‘walled garden’ because there is no ‘walled garden’ for PWAs.
        candiddevmike 5y ago
        Apple effectively doesn't allow PWAs on iOS, so I don't follow your last point.
jhgb 5y ago
> because it doesn’t really make sense on Apple devices where it would be far inferior to native That statement doesn't seem to make sense to me since Apple store's limitations make PWA's relatively more interesting on Apple devices than they would be on Android -- an existing application is not inferior to a non-existent one. On Android you can just serve the native applications yourself if Google doesn't like them. On Apple you can't so web application it is.
SirHound 5y ago
This simply isn't true - offset-path, CSS.registerProperty, there are plenty of instances where non PWA-related features aren't even close to implemented
horsawlarway 5y ago
"Safari is not holding back" Name a place where safari is being innovative on the web.
musicale 5y ago
This exactly. Google's PWA agenda (displace native apps with web apps) is in opposition to Apple's (displace web apps with native apps) on iOS. Apple's business interests are in opposition to PWAs, and Apple would also make the same argument you are citing that native apps offer a better user experience, performance per watt, privacy, security, etc.. However, mobile Safari can support something like Amazon Luna, so it can sidestep the app store to some extent as far as games are concerned.

tehbeard 5y ago

Safari can't even implement a key value store (indexedDB) correctly... We had whole versions where it was basically stuffed, and even in the recent versions, I'm getting random errors where it just refuses to write to disk. If they don't want to implement PWA, fine, their walled garden and wall that, claim it's for privacy etc etc. just don't half ass all the APIs around it then! Leave them out!

cuddlecake 5y ago
> We had whole versions where it was basically stuffed A co-worker asked me "uh, why does the app use 120GB for indexeddb?" Wildest bug I've ever had to deal with. Unfortunately it wasn't even just a safari issue.

kristiandupont 5y ago

>it doesn’t really make sense on Apple devices where it would be far inferior to native Yeah, I get that it doesn't make sense for Apple, business wise -- which is why they are not doing it. But it sure would make sense to developers.

LAC-Tech 5y ago

It makes zero business sense for small-medium companies to make separate android and IOS apps. That's man hours that will be spent on a specific platform and its app store, instead of on improving the core product. PWAs are here to stay.

tarsinge 5y ago
It absolutely make sense to make a state of the art app on a platform if it's key to the business. Also resources is not the problem, even big companies (like banks) make low cost web apps instead of native ones if they can. I don't see why Apple should facilitate compromised user experiences instead of setting the bar higher.
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  Also a PWA can’t compete in quality with a proper native app, should a competitor ever build one you’re toast. The question just revolves around how integral an app is to the business. Online banking probably requires an app. A restaurant that offers online ordering probably does not. A video game requires an app. An online encyclopedia does not.
  - candiddevmike 5y ago
    I think this is wild conjecture. Users don't care as much as you think about "native performance", they care about features and price. PWAs can be iterated faster than native apps, and they circumvent the app store tax. They also let the business control the onboarding and sales funnel vs text only app storefronts filled with garbage.
    - tinus_hn 5y ago
      Native performance is a feature in itself and is not about speed but about UI standards and features. If your statement was true, there wouldn’t have to be any complaints about Apples ‘walled garden’ because there is no ‘walled garden’ for PWAs.
      - candiddevmike 5y ago
        Apple effectively doesn't allow PWAs on iOS, so I don't follow your last point.

jhgb 5y ago

> because it doesn’t really make sense on Apple devices where it would be far inferior to native That statement doesn't seem to make sense to me since Apple store's limitations make PWA's relatively more interesting on Apple devices than they would be on Android -- an existing application is not inferior to a non-existent one. On Android you can just serve the native applications yourself if Google doesn't like them. On Apple you can't so web application it is.

SirHound 5y ago

This simply isn't true - offset-path, CSS.registerProperty, there are plenty of instances where non PWA-related features aren't even close to implemented

horsawlarway 5y ago

"Safari is not holding back" Name a place where safari is being innovative on the web.

musicale 5y ago

This exactly. Google's PWA agenda (displace native apps with web apps) is in opposition to Apple's (displace web apps with native apps) on iOS. Apple's business interests are in opposition to PWAs, and Apple would also make the same argument you are citing that native apps offer a better user experience, performance per watt, privacy, security, etc.. However, mobile Safari can support something like Amazon Luna, so it can sidestep the app store to some extent as far as games are concerned.