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And as another user I care. I don't want to install yet another app to clutter my phone just to access something once that could be a webapp. The browser is an

And as another user I care. I don't want to install yet another app to clutter my phone just to access something once that could be a webapp. The browser is an awesome delivery mechanism for stuff I'm going to use once/rarely: no install or uninstall needed.

mrtksn 5y ago
I haven't seen a single website that doesn't require installation. The website installation process is much more painful than apps because first you need to install it to see it.
- jeroenhd 5y ago
  What website requires installation? The ones I use all work perfectly fine just from the web UI with the option to install them?
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    All websites(with the exception of HN maybe?). Installation doesn't strictly mean putting the website on your home-screen. Whenever you encounter a new website you are required to go through installation process, you can't simply click a link and consume the content anymore. For most websites you need to read and accept the tracking terms and if you are not happy with the default options you need to do custom installation. For the majority of the websites, the next step is to decide if you like to sign up for e-mail marketing or create an account. Many will then ask you to follow them on their social media. On desktop, they will ask you to receive notifications too. After 2 to 5 clicks you have your website installed and can start looking for the content in between the ads. They don't have much monetisation opportunities so you will get all the ads at once. The installation is also not very persistent, if you are not using the website daily you will go through the same the next time.
    - coupdejarnac 5y ago
      "Installing a website" is something I might expect my 70-something year old mother to say. Oh brother.
      - mrtksn 5y ago
        Me and your mother might have many things in common but I doubt that the reasons of calling it "Website installation" is one of them. I would say that if you were familiar with the web technologies you would have seen the parallels. When you type an address of a website or click on a link your browser would download the website data from a server, which is very similar to what happens when you tap "Install". Once your website data is downloaded, the browser would execute the instructions in that data. Usually further resources would be downloaded and, UI drawn and functions executed. This is again very similar to any apps that you run once downloaded. Installation of an app implies making it ready to use. You can download an executable that runs right away or you can have an executable that prepares the environment for use. This is again exactly the same with visiting a website, it might be ready to use right away or in might need a set-up of the environment. In 2021, most websites need a setup process before use, you need to set up the ways you are about to be tracked and what information is to be shared with their partners. You need to decide if you like to sign up for newsletter, if you like to follow their social media accounts and more often than not you will be required to create an account. You will be prompted to set-up notifications too, if the browser support it. Often the native App installation is less tedious and less painful than the website installation process because the app can afford to assume that the device is a personal one and the stored data wont be erased accidentally, therefore the account creation process can be both transparent and persistent. With native apps, you get the chance to see the app before installation(App Store pages with description, screenshots and reviews), with websites you first need to finish the installation and then you get the chance to see the website. Anyway, I hope you see how a website could be installed and in fact is the standart modus operandi in 2021.
    - jeroenhd 5y ago
      I wouldn't call that "installation", just "setup". Installation implies some form of (local) persistence. I avoid setup screens as much as possible. I close many of the websites linked to on HN but I'm not accepting these newsletter popups and neither should anyone else. Websites will keep doing this for as long as people accept this behaviour. Depriving our browsers from useful features is not a solution, it's merely digging our head into the sand and pretending the real problem, problematic and aggressive marketing and data trade, doesn't exist.

mrtksn 5y ago

I haven't seen a single website that doesn't require installation. The website installation process is much more painful than apps because first you need to install it to see it.

jeroenhd 5y ago
What website requires installation? The ones I use all work perfectly fine just from the web UI with the option to install them?
- mrtksn 5y ago
  All websites(with the exception of HN maybe?). Installation doesn't strictly mean putting the website on your home-screen. Whenever you encounter a new website you are required to go through installation process, you can't simply click a link and consume the content anymore. For most websites you need to read and accept the tracking terms and if you are not happy with the default options you need to do custom installation. For the majority of the websites, the next step is to decide if you like to sign up for e-mail marketing or create an account. Many will then ask you to follow them on their social media. On desktop, they will ask you to receive notifications too. After 2 to 5 clicks you have your website installed and can start looking for the content in between the ads. They don't have much monetisation opportunities so you will get all the ads at once. The installation is also not very persistent, if you are not using the website daily you will go through the same the next time.
  - coupdejarnac 5y ago
    "Installing a website" is something I might expect my 70-something year old mother to say. Oh brother.
    - mrtksn 5y ago
      Me and your mother might have many things in common but I doubt that the reasons of calling it "Website installation" is one of them. I would say that if you were familiar with the web technologies you would have seen the parallels. When you type an address of a website or click on a link your browser would download the website data from a server, which is very similar to what happens when you tap "Install". Once your website data is downloaded, the browser would execute the instructions in that data. Usually further resources would be downloaded and, UI drawn and functions executed. This is again very similar to any apps that you run once downloaded. Installation of an app implies making it ready to use. You can download an executable that runs right away or you can have an executable that prepares the environment for use. This is again exactly the same with visiting a website, it might be ready to use right away or in might need a set-up of the environment. In 2021, most websites need a setup process before use, you need to set up the ways you are about to be tracked and what information is to be shared with their partners. You need to decide if you like to sign up for newsletter, if you like to follow their social media accounts and more often than not you will be required to create an account. You will be prompted to set-up notifications too, if the browser support it. Often the native App installation is less tedious and less painful than the website installation process because the app can afford to assume that the device is a personal one and the stored data wont be erased accidentally, therefore the account creation process can be both transparent and persistent. With native apps, you get the chance to see the app before installation(App Store pages with description, screenshots and reviews), with websites you first need to finish the installation and then you get the chance to see the website. Anyway, I hope you see how a website could be installed and in fact is the standart modus operandi in 2021.
  - jeroenhd 5y ago
    I wouldn't call that "installation", just "setup". Installation implies some form of (local) persistence. I avoid setup screens as much as possible. I close many of the websites linked to on HN but I'm not accepting these newsletter popups and neither should anyone else. Websites will keep doing this for as long as people accept this behaviour. Depriving our browsers from useful features is not a solution, it's merely digging our head into the sand and pretending the real problem, problematic and aggressive marketing and data trade, doesn't exist.