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I'm sure there is brain activity that prepares the baby for birth, but calling it a "dream" is just clickbait
by fungiblecog 5y ago
I'm sure there is brain activity that prepares the baby for birth, but calling it a "dream" is just clickbait
- xkeysc0re 5y agoThe researchers call it "dream-like" and it is, in the sense that, like a dream, the neurons are stimulated and activated as though sensory input was occurring despite there being no actual stimuli.
- deburo 5y agoHuh, how weird. How are those stimulis generated? Through the mother's eyes or brain activity?
- pvaldes 5y agoFoetus can have, and will have, direct experience of the world before birth. In the last months of pregnancy they definitely can hear what is happening outside. Will also react to strong noises or gentle pressure. Seeing differences at daylight or obscurity while in the womb does not seem impossible. Anybody that has closed the fist over a strong flashlight knows that the flesh is not totally opaque. Is this dreaming? Maybe, maybe not. Other explanations are possible.
- echelon 5y agoThe headline is kind of beautiful, even if wrong. In a /r/BrandNewSentence kind of way, but also subtle commentary about cognition and our place in the consciousness landscape. "Mammals dream about the world they are about to experience before they are born" Wow, those are some evocative feels in those words. I immediately thought about Google's "DeepDream" and how reversed back propagation gives us a projection of the network. Growing brains similarly fire before they're trained on real world perceptual inputs. Maybe these have shapes that evolved to be world-like and give babies an advantage in the fitness landscape. My next thought: what if what we're collectively doing now -- all of our neural connectomes growing, dying, forming new connections, evolving understandings. Society, basically -- is the same shape of an AGI before birth? Maybe alien worlds tend towards this path too. A bad analogy, sure, but maybe it's the shape of the universe's consciousness being bootstrapped, before it awakens. Not getting into metaphysical garbage -- just thinking about what's to come.
- dogorman 5y agoI guess the suggestion that fetuses might dream probably seems outlandish if, for some reason, you were already committed to the idea that fetuses are "not alive."
- taneq 5y agoI find it highly implausible that many people believe fetusus are "not alive". You might be referring to the widely held position that an early-term fetus isn't sufficiently developed to be considered a full-fledged human, and that any rights it might have don't outweigh those of the mother who is carrying it?
- dogorman 5y agoI've found that "fetuses aren't alive" is a common talking point espoused by people who aren't comfortable sitting in a moral gray area and want an simple excuse to resolve their cognitive dissonance. It's common enough that I can't help but wonder if that is the reason people are so resistant to the idea that fetuses might dream. It seems remarkably similar to "farm animals can't feel pain". A transparent fib people tell themselves to feel better about their positions. Incidentally, I eat meat and I am pro-choice.
- stevenhuang 5y agoI think you've confused the talking points. I've heard the saying that fetuses aren't conscious, but I've never heard anyone, however fringe, say fetuses aren't alive.
- dogorman 5y agoMaybe so, though this too seems like a strange belief, and touches on the reason I find surprise at such things odd: it's been known for years that fetuses at late stages have cycles of REM sleep and apparent wakefulness.
- 5y ago