3 ms·

Experts are not infallible, as you'd like them to be. Are you infallible? Before Covid the prevalent opinion among experts is that masks require training to ha

by loopz 5y ago

Experts are not infallible, as you'd like them to be. Are you infallible? Before Covid the prevalent opinion among experts is that masks require training to handle properly, otherwise they wouldn't "work". Mind you, they are then thinking about high contagion zones, like in hospital wardens filled with sick people. In such cases, even better equipment and proper handling is paramount. It was unknown then that regular masks could help, but the consensus shifted during the pandemic as people needed better protection. So even cloth masks were deemed helpful, if just to somewhat prevent making others sick. Later studies found masks helpful, though distancing even more so. Someone lied to you about this being lies, and not just shifts in consensus and measures during the pandemic. "Nobody" expected a pandemic, for example US pandemic response taskforce and planning were disbanded and defunded.

kcplate 5y ago
Since Fauci admits that he intentionally misled the public, does this mean that Dr. Fauci lied about this being a lie?
- loopz 5y ago
  Do you got a credible source that says what you state here?
  - kcplate 5y ago
    https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/06/23/anthony-fauci-masks-question-vpx.cnn https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/06/23/anthony-fauci-m...
    - loopz 5y ago
      Thanks, but he did not claim all of what you claimed though. I remember more reasons than that for why experts recommended masks to go to qualified personell. Which still was the best usage for those masks at that particular time. Besides, this is from a bad-faith hearing after the fact, not concretely what was said and done at the time by who. You'd have to include the entire context for that to be fair.
      - kcplate 5y ago
        He conveyed in that clip that his advice about public masking was influenced by the need to preserve PPE due to what was expected to be shortages needed for Covid care if the public was to panic purchase surgical masks. If the concern was for preservation of masks for the protection of healthcare workers, then they have some degree of efficacy and he was aware of that fact. So his conveying that they did not provide efficacy to the public to preserve the PPE was being intentionally misleading. You may agree with his decision or his logic behind the misdirection, but it was most certainly a lie by its most pure definition. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lie https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lie
        loopz 5y ago
        So what did he actually say when he allegedly "lied"? Or was it that explicitly Fauci, missed to say something, and why just him and not the entire medical profession? Was the environment fertile for healthy discussion, as it was in our country? With accusations like that, there better be real quotes behind it, not just statements after the fact. In our country, we got the message that healthcare workers were prioritized first, so masks had to go to them. Maybe the media frenzy in USA forgot to tell that, or maybe that message got lost on the way to everybody. Why do you assume bad faith from medical officials, and on what grounds? There was also consensus among doctors that you need qualifications/training for masks to be useful. I see that only as common arrogance and lack of research. This was corrected with later investigations and tests. Do you believe consensus among experts at the time was that the public would be adequately protected with masks? They knew the virus was more infectious than that at the time. So there's little point in recommending something that will become in too short supply fast and lead to unsafe behaviour. At first, distancing would be best focal point to direct behaviour in the populace, which would be the responsibility of the administration. Was there any signs of intention from Fauci to mislead the public? What motive would be behind doing it that way? You might also remember Fauci was later denied making official comments, clarifications and corrections in front of the press. That decision from the top and lack of support from the top, shifts responsibility up.
        5y ago

by loopz 5y ago

kcplate 5y ago

Since Fauci admits that he intentionally misled the public, does this mean that Dr. Fauci lied about this being a lie?

loopz 5y ago
Do you got a credible source that says what you state here?
- kcplate 5y ago
  https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/06/23/anthony-fauci-masks-question-vpx.cnn https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/06/23/anthony-fauci-m...
  - loopz 5y ago
    Thanks, but he did not claim all of what you claimed though. I remember more reasons than that for why experts recommended masks to go to qualified personell. Which still was the best usage for those masks at that particular time. Besides, this is from a bad-faith hearing after the fact, not concretely what was said and done at the time by who. You'd have to include the entire context for that to be fair.
    - kcplate 5y ago
      He conveyed in that clip that his advice about public masking was influenced by the need to preserve PPE due to what was expected to be shortages needed for Covid care if the public was to panic purchase surgical masks. If the concern was for preservation of masks for the protection of healthcare workers, then they have some degree of efficacy and he was aware of that fact. So his conveying that they did not provide efficacy to the public to preserve the PPE was being intentionally misleading. You may agree with his decision or his logic behind the misdirection, but it was most certainly a lie by its most pure definition. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lie https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lie
      - loopz 5y ago
        So what did he actually say when he allegedly "lied"? Or was it that explicitly Fauci, missed to say something, and why just him and not the entire medical profession? Was the environment fertile for healthy discussion, as it was in our country? With accusations like that, there better be real quotes behind it, not just statements after the fact. In our country, we got the message that healthcare workers were prioritized first, so masks had to go to them. Maybe the media frenzy in USA forgot to tell that, or maybe that message got lost on the way to everybody. Why do you assume bad faith from medical officials, and on what grounds? There was also consensus among doctors that you need qualifications/training for masks to be useful. I see that only as common arrogance and lack of research. This was corrected with later investigations and tests. Do you believe consensus among experts at the time was that the public would be adequately protected with masks? They knew the virus was more infectious than that at the time. So there's little point in recommending something that will become in too short supply fast and lead to unsafe behaviour. At first, distancing would be best focal point to direct behaviour in the populace, which would be the responsibility of the administration. Was there any signs of intention from Fauci to mislead the public? What motive would be behind doing it that way? You might also remember Fauci was later denied making official comments, clarifications and corrections in front of the press. That decision from the top and lack of support from the top, shifts responsibility up.
        5y ago