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> Hybrids can be greener than an full EV Any cite for this? It's not totally implausible to me, at least given current power generation.

by notJim 5y ago

Forge36 5y ago
My entire commute is covered by a 22 mile battery. I've put 600 miles on the battery this current tank of gas. I've not used gas yet. While perhaps not typical, the compromise can be a massive improvement.
- gambiting 5y ago
  Same here. Got a Volvo XC60 T8, last time I filled up with fuel was in March. Almost all my local journeys are covered in EV mode entirely and I drive pretty much daily. And last year I was able to do a cross-continent journey without worrying where to charge on the way. Having said all of the above - even according to Volvo's own stats, something absolutely stupid like 60% of all buyers never ever plug these in, it's just a tax dodge scam for a lot of people. But if you are one of the people who do, it works fantastically well.
  - erik_seaberg 5y ago
    Or they hope to have a garage someday but don’t today. My next car might be a hybrid, but I can’t really consider a BEV until I see that a large majority of apartment parking spaces have chargers.
    - gambiting 5y ago
      >>Or they hope to have a garage someday but don’t today. Well, I'd love to believe this, but the matter of fact is that the tax structure around hybrids is completely messed up here in UK. When I got my Volvo, basically as a company car you could either get the highest non-hybrid model, the T6, with about 300bhp and pay like 30% tax on it every year, or get the T8 hybrid, with 400bhp, and pay zero tax on it every year. And of course the government never checks whether you actually ever plug your hybrid in or not, so if you never do it's actually much worse for economy and emissions than the T6 which is much more to tax. It's insanity.
      - gsnedders 5y ago
        Thankfully, it does seem like the EU at least is moving towards trying to quantify real-world emissions with the clear goal of wanting to ensure the homologation measurement reflects reality. I wouldn't be surprised if the rated fuel efficiency decreased and emissions rose for plug-in hybrids in light of data showing relatively little usage of the battery.
        gambiting 5y ago
        Call me crazy, but I think you should be taxed on your actual usage. Just like your annual inspection reads your odometer, it should just read the petrol vs EV distance from the built-in computer and you should get a tax bill in the post. Got a plug in hybrid and drive it nearly always in EV mode? Great, zero tax for you. Got a plugin hybrid but drive it exclusively on petrol? You'll be taxed the same(or more) as a regular petrol car. The issue with standardised tests for this stuff is that it really depends on individual usage. We should be punishing polutting usage of the car, not what the "average" it can do, since it's meaningless.
        gsnedders 5y ago
        Note that to some degree we already have this through fuel duty. It's only the VED which is changed. There's an argument that VED should be based on factors _not_ linked to exhaust emissions, and that fuel duty should be used to that effect.
- nolastan 5y ago
  +1 I have a plug-in Prius and I haven't put gas in the tank since January, when I drove 10 hours to visit family.

> Hybrids can be greener than an full EV Any cite for this? It's not totally implausible to me, at least given current power generation.

by notJim 5y ago

> Hybrids can be greener than an full EV Any cite for this? It's not totally implausible to me, at least given current power generation.

Forge36 5y ago

My entire commute is covered by a 22 mile battery. I've put 600 miles on the battery this current tank of gas. I've not used gas yet. While perhaps not typical, the compromise can be a massive improvement.

gambiting 5y ago
Same here. Got a Volvo XC60 T8, last time I filled up with fuel was in March. Almost all my local journeys are covered in EV mode entirely and I drive pretty much daily. And last year I was able to do a cross-continent journey without worrying where to charge on the way. Having said all of the above - even according to Volvo's own stats, something absolutely stupid like 60% of all buyers never ever plug these in, it's just a tax dodge scam for a lot of people. But if you are one of the people who do, it works fantastically well.
- erik_seaberg 5y ago
  Or they hope to have a garage someday but don’t today. My next car might be a hybrid, but I can’t really consider a BEV until I see that a large majority of apartment parking spaces have chargers.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    >>Or they hope to have a garage someday but don’t today. Well, I'd love to believe this, but the matter of fact is that the tax structure around hybrids is completely messed up here in UK. When I got my Volvo, basically as a company car you could either get the highest non-hybrid model, the T6, with about 300bhp and pay like 30% tax on it every year, or get the T8 hybrid, with 400bhp, and pay zero tax on it every year. And of course the government never checks whether you actually ever plug your hybrid in or not, so if you never do it's actually much worse for economy and emissions than the T6 which is much more to tax. It's insanity.
    - gsnedders 5y ago
      Thankfully, it does seem like the EU at least is moving towards trying to quantify real-world emissions with the clear goal of wanting to ensure the homologation measurement reflects reality. I wouldn't be surprised if the rated fuel efficiency decreased and emissions rose for plug-in hybrids in light of data showing relatively little usage of the battery.
      - gambiting 5y ago
        Call me crazy, but I think you should be taxed on your actual usage. Just like your annual inspection reads your odometer, it should just read the petrol vs EV distance from the built-in computer and you should get a tax bill in the post. Got a plug in hybrid and drive it nearly always in EV mode? Great, zero tax for you. Got a plugin hybrid but drive it exclusively on petrol? You'll be taxed the same(or more) as a regular petrol car. The issue with standardised tests for this stuff is that it really depends on individual usage. We should be punishing polutting usage of the car, not what the "average" it can do, since it's meaningless.
        gsnedders 5y ago
        Note that to some degree we already have this through fuel duty. It's only the VED which is changed. There's an argument that VED should be based on factors _not_ linked to exhaust emissions, and that fuel duty should be used to that effect.
nolastan 5y ago
+1 I have a plug-in Prius and I haven't put gas in the tank since January, when I drove 10 hours to visit family.