6 ms·

Revamped Humvee Draws Military’s Eye

44 points by antr 15y ago

icegreentea 15y ago
I wonder how this will affect maneuverability inside the vehicle. If Generation Kill is accurate at all, it seems like they get kinda cramp already. But still, cool! Though I can't help but giggle at the device meant to drop the gunner... seems like a mechanism that someone will use for pranking.
- mrj 15y ago
  Oh, they're pretty cramped. (As a Marine, I can tell you Generation Kill was pretty good.) Actually, I would be more concerned about a tendency to rollover just by looking at it. When the armored ones first came out there were a bunch of accidents because they were so much heavier at the top that they tended to rollover more often. We all had to take an off road class to drive them. :-)
  - jessriedel 15y ago
    Do you mind elaborating? I've ridden in the civilian Hummer, and the passengers in the back seat were so far apart they could barely touch each other if they stuck out their arms. What makes it cramped? Equipment?
    - soult 15y ago
      Which civilian version did you ride? The H2 and H3 are not actually based on the Humvee design.
      - jessriedel 15y ago
        Yes, I know. The H2 and H3 are just expensive SUVs, and aren't nearly as big as I described.
    - mrj 15y ago
      Yeah, mostly stuff you wear. They're nice and comfy if you don't happen to be wearing body armor, your weapon, a pack, food for a day, camelback, etc. Every time a door opens you see Marines and all the gear that was stuffed in there pour out. The hmmwv is spacious, but Marines typically wear at least their body weight in gear. Nothing is ever really comfortable except lying on your back or standing...
      - rdl 15y ago
        There is also the guy standing in the middle of the 4 seats, plus all the ammo boxes, brass, radios, blue force tracker (2 way gps; shows position of friendly units on a map), etc. Rarely found on the civilian h1. I did like how body armor and Kevlar made it easier to sleep on rough surfaces (gravel, vehicles, benches, concrete walls, ...)
  - mrj 15y ago
    Sadly too common: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015653368_apwamarineshumvee.html http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015653368_a...
  - inceptor 15y ago
    Rollovers were actually the number two cause of death when I was in Iraq in 2009. I've never seen an MRAP rollover, but we were always a bit edgy about it happening.
- ceejayoz 15y ago
  I'd take cramped over dead any day.
- inceptor 15y ago
  As an hummvee gunner in Iraq in 2009, we had a manual device to drop the gunner if something happened. The device was indeed used in a humorous fashion a few times. I wonder how it would be done fast enough when performed automatically to be effective. As far as cramped goes, space is definitely at a premium, especially leg room, once you get all your gear on (and imo riding in one of those things without gear wasn't all that comfortable).
sambeau 15y ago
What a brilliant piece of non-obvious design. Who would have thought that putting a huge hole through the middle of a vehicle would make it better at withstanding a bomb blast?
- maeon3 15y ago
  So now we have to deal with maimed soldiers coming home instead of killed ones? That's not the kind of kickass solution I expect from the most powerful military on the planet on the subject of "light vehicles getting blowed up by people putting bombs under the roads". Require a senator to travel in one of those vehicles in the war zone and the "Put a huge hole in the top" idea wouldn't go over so well. It would be replaced by a pontificating senator analyzing why we are waging war like retards.
  - brianbreslin 15y ago
    well i think those soldiers would appreciate the opportunity to have a slightly better chance of surviving, even if they end up injured. i'd rather be hurt and living than dead.
    - checker 15y ago
      I don't know if your statement applies to all soldiers universally. Or even to all injuries. I think it depends on the person and what happened to them.
  - rdl 15y ago
    I've seen people walk out of utterly destroyed mrap vehicles, so if this vehicle is as protected, odds are good that especially in afghanistan, where the ieds tend tobe smaller, it will mean lots of work for mechanics and replacing trucks, not a lot more serious injuries. To the extent we are fighting the war like retards, it is the concept of using huge armored trucks when dismounted patrols are more effective. And rotating units in 4, 7, or 12 months, just as they become effective, and picking corrupt and ineffective local allies and having inconsistent and irrational goals in the first place. Senators are probably on helicopters or in armored SUVs around Kabul mre than in military tactical vehicles. The average level IV suv will get even more trashed than an up armored hmmwv in ied attacks, but Kabul was safe enough we just took local cars, so not a big deal.
zdw 15y ago
If the blast is right under the vehicle, I can see how this could work... but if it's on one of the corners, say the right front tire, wouldn't the entire vehicle get flipped or thrown violently?
- rdl 15y ago
  That is what the v hull is for; it directs the blast outward. You would lose the tire, wheel, and possibly axle, and could get a mobility kill on the vehicle, but they train for that and go with multiple trucks (more if it is more dangerous; there were places with a six truck night minimum, which was scary for me in a single unarmored 1990s BMW sedan with a 9mm...). Other vehicles radio in, cover the downed truck, may ram/push it out of the way, or tow, or crossload. The big concerns are secondary ieds, triggered after the response begins (so people out of the vehicles), or a ground assault (uncommon, and rarely effective. One truck with a .50 up top can basically hold its own.) Traumatic Brain Injury, concussion, etc from overpressure or being thrown around is possible, but everyone is wearing armor and helmets, and there is a lot of mass in the vehicle, so if you can get rid of most of the energy of an ied, and keep people from being pierced by anything, it is probably enough. The big risk in ieds is massive bleeding; enough that military first aid prioritizes bleeding control ("massive hemorrhage" in MARCH vs. ABC); usually this is from a limb being blown off, since the torso is well armored).

44 points by antr 15y ago

I wonder how this will affect maneuverability inside the vehicle. If Generation Kill is accurate at all, it seems like they get kinda cramp already. But still, cool! Though I can't help but giggle at the device meant to drop the gunner... seems like a mechanism that someone will use for pranking.

mrj 15y ago
Oh, they're pretty cramped. (As a Marine, I can tell you Generation Kill was pretty good.) Actually, I would be more concerned about a tendency to rollover just by looking at it. When the armored ones first came out there were a bunch of accidents because they were so much heavier at the top that they tended to rollover more often. We all had to take an off road class to drive them. :-)
- jessriedel 15y ago
  Do you mind elaborating? I've ridden in the civilian Hummer, and the passengers in the back seat were so far apart they could barely touch each other if they stuck out their arms. What makes it cramped? Equipment?
  - soult 15y ago
    Which civilian version did you ride? The H2 and H3 are not actually based on the Humvee design.
    - jessriedel 15y ago
      Yes, I know. The H2 and H3 are just expensive SUVs, and aren't nearly as big as I described.
  - mrj 15y ago
    Yeah, mostly stuff you wear. They're nice and comfy if you don't happen to be wearing body armor, your weapon, a pack, food for a day, camelback, etc. Every time a door opens you see Marines and all the gear that was stuffed in there pour out. The hmmwv is spacious, but Marines typically wear at least their body weight in gear. Nothing is ever really comfortable except lying on your back or standing...
    - rdl 15y ago
      There is also the guy standing in the middle of the 4 seats, plus all the ammo boxes, brass, radios, blue force tracker (2 way gps; shows position of friendly units on a map), etc. Rarely found on the civilian h1. I did like how body armor and Kevlar made it easier to sleep on rough surfaces (gravel, vehicles, benches, concrete walls, ...)
- mrj 15y ago
  Sadly too common: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015653368_apwamarineshumvee.html http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015653368_a...
- inceptor 15y ago
  Rollovers were actually the number two cause of death when I was in Iraq in 2009. I've never seen an MRAP rollover, but we were always a bit edgy about it happening.
ceejayoz 15y ago
I'd take cramped over dead any day.
inceptor 15y ago
As an hummvee gunner in Iraq in 2009, we had a manual device to drop the gunner if something happened. The device was indeed used in a humorous fashion a few times. I wonder how it would be done fast enough when performed automatically to be effective. As far as cramped goes, space is definitely at a premium, especially leg room, once you get all your gear on (and imo riding in one of those things without gear wasn't all that comfortable).

sambeau 15y ago

What a brilliant piece of non-obvious design. Who would have thought that putting a huge hole through the middle of a vehicle would make it better at withstanding a bomb blast?

maeon3 15y ago
So now we have to deal with maimed soldiers coming home instead of killed ones? That's not the kind of kickass solution I expect from the most powerful military on the planet on the subject of "light vehicles getting blowed up by people putting bombs under the roads". Require a senator to travel in one of those vehicles in the war zone and the "Put a huge hole in the top" idea wouldn't go over so well. It would be replaced by a pontificating senator analyzing why we are waging war like retards.
- brianbreslin 15y ago
  well i think those soldiers would appreciate the opportunity to have a slightly better chance of surviving, even if they end up injured. i'd rather be hurt and living than dead.
  - checker 15y ago
    I don't know if your statement applies to all soldiers universally. Or even to all injuries. I think it depends on the person and what happened to them.
- rdl 15y ago
  I've seen people walk out of utterly destroyed mrap vehicles, so if this vehicle is as protected, odds are good that especially in afghanistan, where the ieds tend tobe smaller, it will mean lots of work for mechanics and replacing trucks, not a lot more serious injuries. To the extent we are fighting the war like retards, it is the concept of using huge armored trucks when dismounted patrols are more effective. And rotating units in 4, 7, or 12 months, just as they become effective, and picking corrupt and ineffective local allies and having inconsistent and irrational goals in the first place. Senators are probably on helicopters or in armored SUVs around Kabul mre than in military tactical vehicles. The average level IV suv will get even more trashed than an up armored hmmwv in ied attacks, but Kabul was safe enough we just took local cars, so not a big deal.

zdw 15y ago

If the blast is right under the vehicle, I can see how this could work... but if it's on one of the corners, say the right front tire, wouldn't the entire vehicle get flipped or thrown violently?

rdl 15y ago
That is what the v hull is for; it directs the blast outward. You would lose the tire, wheel, and possibly axle, and could get a mobility kill on the vehicle, but they train for that and go with multiple trucks (more if it is more dangerous; there were places with a six truck night minimum, which was scary for me in a single unarmored 1990s BMW sedan with a 9mm...). Other vehicles radio in, cover the downed truck, may ram/push it out of the way, or tow, or crossload. The big concerns are secondary ieds, triggered after the response begins (so people out of the vehicles), or a ground assault (uncommon, and rarely effective. One truck with a .50 up top can basically hold its own.) Traumatic Brain Injury, concussion, etc from overpressure or being thrown around is possible, but everyone is wearing armor and helmets, and there is a lot of mass in the vehicle, so if you can get rid of most of the energy of an ied, and keep people from being pierced by anything, it is probably enough. The big risk in ieds is massive bleeding; enough that military first aid prioritizes bleeding control ("massive hemorrhage" in MARCH vs. ABC); usually this is from a limb being blown off, since the torso is well armored).