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Aren't 'neurodiverse' people over-represented in IT/Computer Science, compared to their fraction of the population? Is trying to increase their share even furt

Aren't 'neurodiverse' people over-represented in IT/Computer Science, compared to their fraction of the population? Is trying to increase their share even further the correct way path to take? If we're talking about the general workforce, instead of specifically tech fields, that would make sense.

andai 5y ago
Yes, they're already a large share, and they hate the existing interviewing process, as well as most office environments (and the politics that go along with it).
brighton36 5y ago
Over-representation assumes that there's an objective taxonomy by which representation can be factored. I find it very amusing that no one thinks of this, and/or can't bring this 'obvious' fact to light. "Imagined Communities" is a good book on some of this, if anyone cares to read more. I suspect that there's a lot of civil religion at work, that causes these taxonomies to not immediately appear assumptive. I would guess that we'll lose these components of the civil religion, over time, as a consequence to these initiatives.
tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
A more reasonable metric to use seems to be whether a group is over/underrepresented in a company compared to the available workforce (not overall population), and I'm not sure whether neurodiverse people are overrepresented by that metric. However, even more important would be to try to give everyone a fair chance, as opposed to trying to meet some metrics which can often lead to discrimination (https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/02/590346891/ex-google-recruiter-sues-alleging-policies-discriminate-against-white-and-asian- https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/02/590346891...). Since neurodiversity isn't one of the "popular" diversity/social justice topics, I suspect the main motivation here is to avoid missing applicants that are technically skilled and suitable, but may not do well in the interview process due to their neurodiversity.
- Thorentis 5y ago
  What is the issue with certain groups being over or under represented? Physically fit people are over-represented in sport. Attractive people are over-represented in modelling. High IQ people are over represented in rocket science. Who cares? We need to stop sacrificing everything on the altar of diversity.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
    It can indicate systemic discrimination. Note can, not always does, which seems to be how it's treated.
- titanomachy 5y ago
  It is a popular topic within Google, at least.
- faeriechangling 5y ago
  I don't really see why targeting the company is useful other than for political practicality because it's rather easy to hold entire companies accountable than some manager hiring for some specific IT role in small enough numbers its harder to not give them the benefit of the doubt. For starters, if you don't care about what job role a diverse group lands up in, does that mean it's okay if they don't get any upper level well compensated jobs so long as they're staffed in many lower paying jobs? In regards to avoiding discrimination, and giving everybody a fair chance, I don't see a system that accomplishes this besides a lottery. The job interview is fundamentally a ritual of discrimination. The entire fixation on increasing employment for a small number of "diverse" groups is mostly driven by the political strength of said groups rather than any sort of consistent moral principles.
paxys 5y ago
How do you define over-represented? What's the ideal representation? Do you base it on the global population? Within the US? People with an engineering/CS degree?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
pvarangot 5y ago
Over represented how? From the total world population? Most definitely. From the population that gets a CS degree? I may be biased but think neurodiverse people prefer staying at academia if they can and would like that balance to tip off a little.
nullsense 5y ago
The idea that each category we can come up with to lump people into should be totally evenly distributed across all streams of work or else something must be wrong has always seemed weird to me. If there is something actively preventing you from being in or sticking around in a profession you want to be a part of, I'm all for breaking down those barriers, but the idea of "over-representation" seems to go in the opposite direction. It seems aimed at keeping or kicking people out.
bawolff 5y ago
These are real people with hopes and dreams. They should have every opportunity everyone else has regardless of if people think they are over-quota or whatever. Lots of discrimination in the past was justified with the argument that a minority group was over-represented in some field. E.g. some north american universities restricting jewish applicants all the way up until the 60s.

andai 5y ago

Yes, they're already a large share, and they hate the existing interviewing process, as well as most office environments (and the politics that go along with it).

brighton36 5y ago

Over-representation assumes that there's an objective taxonomy by which representation can be factored. I find it very amusing that no one thinks of this, and/or can't bring this 'obvious' fact to light. "Imagined Communities" is a good book on some of this, if anyone cares to read more. I suspect that there's a lot of civil religion at work, that causes these taxonomies to not immediately appear assumptive. I would guess that we'll lose these components of the civil religion, over time, as a consequence to these initiatives.

tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago

A more reasonable metric to use seems to be whether a group is over/underrepresented in a company compared to the available workforce (not overall population), and I'm not sure whether neurodiverse people are overrepresented by that metric. However, even more important would be to try to give everyone a fair chance, as opposed to trying to meet some metrics which can often lead to discrimination (https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/02/590346891/ex-google-recruiter-sues-alleging-policies-discriminate-against-white-and-asian- https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/02/590346891...). Since neurodiversity isn't one of the "popular" diversity/social justice topics, I suspect the main motivation here is to avoid missing applicants that are technically skilled and suitable, but may not do well in the interview process due to their neurodiversity.

Thorentis 5y ago
What is the issue with certain groups being over or under represented? Physically fit people are over-represented in sport. Attractive people are over-represented in modelling. High IQ people are over represented in rocket science. Who cares? We need to stop sacrificing everything on the altar of diversity.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
  It can indicate systemic discrimination. Note can, not always does, which seems to be how it's treated.
titanomachy 5y ago
It is a popular topic within Google, at least.
faeriechangling 5y ago
I don't really see why targeting the company is useful other than for political practicality because it's rather easy to hold entire companies accountable than some manager hiring for some specific IT role in small enough numbers its harder to not give them the benefit of the doubt. For starters, if you don't care about what job role a diverse group lands up in, does that mean it's okay if they don't get any upper level well compensated jobs so long as they're staffed in many lower paying jobs? In regards to avoiding discrimination, and giving everybody a fair chance, I don't see a system that accomplishes this besides a lottery. The job interview is fundamentally a ritual of discrimination. The entire fixation on increasing employment for a small number of "diverse" groups is mostly driven by the political strength of said groups rather than any sort of consistent moral principles.

paxys 5y ago

How do you define over-represented? What's the ideal representation? Do you base it on the global population? Within the US? People with an engineering/CS degree?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

pvarangot 5y ago

Over represented how? From the total world population? Most definitely. From the population that gets a CS degree? I may be biased but think neurodiverse people prefer staying at academia if they can and would like that balance to tip off a little.

nullsense 5y ago

The idea that each category we can come up with to lump people into should be totally evenly distributed across all streams of work or else something must be wrong has always seemed weird to me. If there is something actively preventing you from being in or sticking around in a profession you want to be a part of, I'm all for breaking down those barriers, but the idea of "over-representation" seems to go in the opposite direction. It seems aimed at keeping or kicking people out.

bawolff 5y ago

These are real people with hopes and dreams. They should have every opportunity everyone else has regardless of if people think they are over-quota or whatever. Lots of discrimination in the past was justified with the argument that a minority group was over-represented in some field. E.g. some north american universities restricting jewish applicants all the way up until the 60s.