3 ms·

In other countries, people don't get billed for their healthcare, or the bill is small enough to be insignificant for most of the population. But we can't have

In other countries, people don't get billed for their healthcare, or the bill is small enough to be insignificant for most of the population. But we can't have that in America, because half the country is convinced that would be SOCIALISM!!

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
I know that this is true for many other countries, but is this in fact true for all other countries?
- markdown 5y ago
  Not all, but most.
themolecularman 5y ago
To be fair America has the Veterans Affairs administration, which is socialized medicine, albeit for a small subset of the population, veterans. If you recall from Donald Trump's presidency, one of the things he campaigned on for veterans, is the ability to choose your own healthcare, such that they wouldn't be locked into the veterans affairs medical system, which was found to be far insufficient. This isn't an apples to apples but it's worth considering that there are examples of the alternative model not working in America either.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > To be fair America has the Veterans Affairs administration, which is socialized medicine, albeit for a small subset of the population, veterans. It also has TriCare (military & dependents, ~10M), Medicare (Aged/Disabled, 61.2M in 2020), and Medicaid (medically indigent, 68M in 2020). With around 9M in Veteran Health Administration, the US has socialized medicine for nearly 150M people out of the 330M population.
  - jdmichal 5y ago
    Medicare and Medicaid are not exclusive. They call it "dual eligible". (PDF WARNING) https://www.cms.gov/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-and-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination-Office/Downloads/MMCO_Factsheet.pdf https://www.cms.gov/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-... This lists 20% of Medicare and 15% of Medicaid enrolled are dual eligible. So that's somewhere between 10.2 and 12.2 million lower, using your numbers. (And yes, those numbers are obviously off somewhere, since the two should match. But it's good enough and I'm not sure it's even possible to track down the actual numbers used in the given link.)
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Medicare and Medicaid are not exclusive. They call it "dual eligible". Good call. Forgot to consider dual eligibles; which drops it closer to 1/3 the population than half with socialized medicine.
- jodison 5y ago
  I, like many veterans, love the VA. https://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=5328 https://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=5328 My understanding is that that the veterans' choice private options would still have been payed for by the VA. https://www.va.gov/COMMUNITYCARE/providers/index.asp https://www.va.gov/COMMUNITYCARE/providers/index.asp https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1396/increase-veterans-health-care/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpomete...
- Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
  > one of the things he campaigned on for veterans, is the ability to choose your own healthcare Veterans can already do that. > such that they wouldn't be locked into the veterans affairs medical system, which was found to be far insufficient. They aren't locked into the VA, and whether or not the VA is sufficient depends on who you ask. Veterans already have the choice of choosing their own healthcare or using the VA. If the VA is considered insufficient, but they're using it anyways, then that means that their other choices are even worse. Don't be fooled. Republicans want to gut the VA as a way to cut spending so they can give the rich even more tax cuts. They will happily do this at the cost of healthcare for veterans while framing it as expanding freedom by giving them a choice that they already had.
tryingtogetback 5y ago
Dangerously ill-informed comment. Have you ever been to a hospital in a country that embraced socialism? In some countries you pay effectively zero for socialized healthcare. What an awesome, marketable for votes delusion. Guess what. You get exactly what you paid for. Chronic mismanagement, apathy, deteriorating conditions, lack of resources. Need to schedule a procedure? Get into a virtual line 10000 persons long. "Oh you are in pain? I'm sorry. Thermometers are the only medication we can offer". In CIS countries, the only way to get something done is to bribe an official (to move you up the line by a 100 or so) or a private clinic (but socialism is so great! right?) If a country with socialized healthcare manages float it's healthcare services on an "average" (aka meh) level, it's only because of the private donors, private insurances, private donations, and financial aid and subsidies from US (but capitalism is so awful, right??) Grass is always greener aka you have no idea what you are talking about
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > or a private clinic (but socialism is so great! right?) Having to pay out of pocket after paying 50%+ tax rate! Incredible!
- majormajor 5y ago
  I have - I had an emergency procedure done within hours, without noticing particular mismanagement, apathy, deteriorating conditions, or lack of resources. It was annoying that they didn't want to give out narcotic painkillers, but given addiction rates here, understandable. Not a question of resources, just a different approach. Of course, as a foreigner who was going to have to pay cash, I can't be positive that the experience would be the same for citizens on Taiwan's national plan, but the people I was staying with said I was being treated the same as they'd seen anyone else...
- parrellel 5y ago
  I don't think the countries of the ex-USSR are what anyone is talking about when they're talking about socialized medicine.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago

I know that this is true for many other countries, but is this in fact true for all other countries?

markdown 5y ago
Not all, but most.

themolecularman 5y ago

To be fair America has the Veterans Affairs administration, which is socialized medicine, albeit for a small subset of the population, veterans. If you recall from Donald Trump's presidency, one of the things he campaigned on for veterans, is the ability to choose your own healthcare, such that they wouldn't be locked into the veterans affairs medical system, which was found to be far insufficient. This isn't an apples to apples but it's worth considering that there are examples of the alternative model not working in America either.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> To be fair America has the Veterans Affairs administration, which is socialized medicine, albeit for a small subset of the population, veterans. It also has TriCare (military & dependents, ~10M), Medicare (Aged/Disabled, 61.2M in 2020), and Medicaid (medically indigent, 68M in 2020). With around 9M in Veteran Health Administration, the US has socialized medicine for nearly 150M people out of the 330M population.
- jdmichal 5y ago
  Medicare and Medicaid are not exclusive. They call it "dual eligible". (PDF WARNING) https://www.cms.gov/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-and-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination-Office/Downloads/MMCO_Factsheet.pdf https://www.cms.gov/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-... This lists 20% of Medicare and 15% of Medicaid enrolled are dual eligible. So that's somewhere between 10.2 and 12.2 million lower, using your numbers. (And yes, those numbers are obviously off somewhere, since the two should match. But it's good enough and I'm not sure it's even possible to track down the actual numbers used in the given link.)
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Medicare and Medicaid are not exclusive. They call it "dual eligible". Good call. Forgot to consider dual eligibles; which drops it closer to 1/3 the population than half with socialized medicine.
jodison 5y ago
I, like many veterans, love the VA. https://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=5328 https://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=5328 My understanding is that that the veterans' choice private options would still have been payed for by the VA. https://www.va.gov/COMMUNITYCARE/providers/index.asp https://www.va.gov/COMMUNITYCARE/providers/index.asp https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1396/increase-veterans-health-care/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpomete...
Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
> one of the things he campaigned on for veterans, is the ability to choose your own healthcare Veterans can already do that. > such that they wouldn't be locked into the veterans affairs medical system, which was found to be far insufficient. They aren't locked into the VA, and whether or not the VA is sufficient depends on who you ask. Veterans already have the choice of choosing their own healthcare or using the VA. If the VA is considered insufficient, but they're using it anyways, then that means that their other choices are even worse. Don't be fooled. Republicans want to gut the VA as a way to cut spending so they can give the rich even more tax cuts. They will happily do this at the cost of healthcare for veterans while framing it as expanding freedom by giving them a choice that they already had.

tryingtogetback 5y ago

Dangerously ill-informed comment. Have you ever been to a hospital in a country that embraced socialism? In some countries you pay effectively zero for socialized healthcare. What an awesome, marketable for votes delusion. Guess what. You get exactly what you paid for. Chronic mismanagement, apathy, deteriorating conditions, lack of resources. Need to schedule a procedure? Get into a virtual line 10000 persons long. "Oh you are in pain? I'm sorry. Thermometers are the only medication we can offer". In CIS countries, the only way to get something done is to bribe an official (to move you up the line by a 100 or so) or a private clinic (but socialism is so great! right?) If a country with socialized healthcare manages float it's healthcare services on an "average" (aka meh) level, it's only because of the private donors, private insurances, private donations, and financial aid and subsidies from US (but capitalism is so awful, right??) Grass is always greener aka you have no idea what you are talking about

908B64B197 5y ago
> or a private clinic (but socialism is so great! right?) Having to pay out of pocket after paying 50%+ tax rate! Incredible!
majormajor 5y ago
I have - I had an emergency procedure done within hours, without noticing particular mismanagement, apathy, deteriorating conditions, or lack of resources. It was annoying that they didn't want to give out narcotic painkillers, but given addiction rates here, understandable. Not a question of resources, just a different approach. Of course, as a foreigner who was going to have to pay cash, I can't be positive that the experience would be the same for citizens on Taiwan's national plan, but the people I was staying with said I was being treated the same as they'd seen anyone else...
parrellel 5y ago
I don't think the countries of the ex-USSR are what anyone is talking about when they're talking about socialized medicine.