4 ms·

Are there other countries where a person might be responsible for their own bills? I think there are, right? This may be a bit of a silly question, but how do t

Are there other countries where a person might be responsible for their own bills? I think there are, right? This may be a bit of a silly question, but how do the systems in those countries collect from individuals who will not otherwise pay?

aaomidi 5y ago
The same way America handles it when eventually enough people don't pay. They bail the companies out with a ton of tax payer money so the companies can continue their practices.
Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
In other countries, people don't get billed for their healthcare, or the bill is small enough to be insignificant for most of the population. But we can't have that in America, because half the country is convinced that would be SOCIALISM!!
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  I know that this is true for many other countries, but is this in fact true for all other countries?
  - markdown 5y ago
    Not all, but most.
- themolecularman 5y ago
  To be fair America has the Veterans Affairs administration, which is socialized medicine, albeit for a small subset of the population, veterans. If you recall from Donald Trump's presidency, one of the things he campaigned on for veterans, is the ability to choose your own healthcare, such that they wouldn't be locked into the veterans affairs medical system, which was found to be far insufficient. This isn't an apples to apples but it's worth considering that there are examples of the alternative model not working in America either.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > To be fair America has the Veterans Affairs administration, which is socialized medicine, albeit for a small subset of the population, veterans. It also has TriCare (military & dependents, ~10M), Medicare (Aged/Disabled, 61.2M in 2020), and Medicaid (medically indigent, 68M in 2020). With around 9M in Veteran Health Administration, the US has socialized medicine for nearly 150M people out of the 330M population.
    - jdmichal 5y ago
      Medicare and Medicaid are not exclusive. They call it "dual eligible". (PDF WARNING) https://www.cms.gov/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-and-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination-Office/Downloads/MMCO_Factsheet.pdf https://www.cms.gov/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-... This lists 20% of Medicare and 15% of Medicaid enrolled are dual eligible. So that's somewhere between 10.2 and 12.2 million lower, using your numbers. (And yes, those numbers are obviously off somewhere, since the two should match. But it's good enough and I'm not sure it's even possible to track down the actual numbers used in the given link.)
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Medicare and Medicaid are not exclusive. They call it "dual eligible". Good call. Forgot to consider dual eligibles; which drops it closer to 1/3 the population than half with socialized medicine.
  - jodison 5y ago
    I, like many veterans, love the VA. https://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=5328 https://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=5328 My understanding is that that the veterans' choice private options would still have been payed for by the VA. https://www.va.gov/COMMUNITYCARE/providers/index.asp https://www.va.gov/COMMUNITYCARE/providers/index.asp https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1396/increase-veterans-health-care/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpomete...
  - 5y ago
- tryingtogetback 5y ago
  Dangerously ill-informed comment. Have you ever been to a hospital in a country that embraced socialism? In some countries you pay effectively zero for socialized healthcare. What an awesome, marketable for votes delusion. Guess what. You get exactly what you paid for. Chronic mismanagement, apathy, deteriorating conditions, lack of resources. Need to schedule a procedure? Get into a virtual line 10000 persons long. "Oh you are in pain? I'm sorry. Thermometers are the only medication we can offer". In CIS countries, the only way to get something done is to bribe an official (to move you up the line by a 100 or so) or a private clinic (but socialism is so great! right?) If a country with socialized healthcare manages float it's healthcare services on an "average" (aka meh) level, it's only because of the private donors, private insurances, private donations, and financial aid and subsidies from US (but capitalism is so awful, right??) Grass is always greener aka you have no idea what you are talking about
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    > or a private clinic (but socialism is so great! right?) Having to pay out of pocket after paying 50%+ tax rate! Incredible!
  - majormajor 5y ago
    I have - I had an emergency procedure done within hours, without noticing particular mismanagement, apathy, deteriorating conditions, or lack of resources. It was annoying that they didn't want to give out narcotic painkillers, but given addiction rates here, understandable. Not a question of resources, just a different approach. Of course, as a foreigner who was going to have to pay cash, I can't be positive that the experience would be the same for citizens on Taiwan's national plan, but the people I was staying with said I was being treated the same as they'd seen anyone else...
  - parrellel 5y ago
    I don't think the countries of the ex-USSR are what anyone is talking about when they're talking about socialized medicine.
loopz 5y ago
In many social democratic countries citizens will only pay a small fixed fee for necessary operations. For private bills, or if your travel-insurance doesn't cover medical bills in other countries, you could still get stuck with a hefty bill. In most cases, you pay peanuts and people get their health back so they can go back to work and live life as before.
- gruez 5y ago
  But GP was talking about countries in general, not just wealthy western social democratic countries.
codegeek 5y ago
" own bills" The problem is that Hospitals can charge any amount they feel is correct but you cannot find that out UNTIL AFTER the service is delivered. Yes you could ask for cash prices but try doing that at a regular hospital and see how quickly you get them in a clear and concise manner.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  I'm replying to you because you're the top comment, but this is a general response, because I feel like many replies have misconstrued my meaning. I am not asking what happens in countries with socialized healthcare. I'm also not asking what are the flaws of private healthcare. I am only asking, supposing that there are other countries where there is private healthcare, how those countries deal with nonpayment. If there are no other such countries the question is moot but I had been led to believe that there are some.
neurostimulant 5y ago
In my country, without insurance you will usually be required to place cash deposit before the hospital approves any expensive treatment. If you don't have any money for the deposit, you will need to secure financial assistant somewhere else first (government assistance, charity, etc). This limit hospital's risk, but put extra pressure to patients. Luckily healthcare cost is relatively cheaper here.

aaomidi 5y ago

The same way America handles it when eventually enough people don't pay. They bail the companies out with a ton of tax payer money so the companies can continue their practices.

Sohcahtoa82 5y ago

In other countries, people don't get billed for their healthcare, or the bill is small enough to be insignificant for most of the population. But we can't have that in America, because half the country is convinced that would be SOCIALISM!!

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
I know that this is true for many other countries, but is this in fact true for all other countries?
- markdown 5y ago
  Not all, but most.
themolecularman 5y ago
To be fair America has the Veterans Affairs administration, which is socialized medicine, albeit for a small subset of the population, veterans. If you recall from Donald Trump's presidency, one of the things he campaigned on for veterans, is the ability to choose your own healthcare, such that they wouldn't be locked into the veterans affairs medical system, which was found to be far insufficient. This isn't an apples to apples but it's worth considering that there are examples of the alternative model not working in America either.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > To be fair America has the Veterans Affairs administration, which is socialized medicine, albeit for a small subset of the population, veterans. It also has TriCare (military & dependents, ~10M), Medicare (Aged/Disabled, 61.2M in 2020), and Medicaid (medically indigent, 68M in 2020). With around 9M in Veteran Health Administration, the US has socialized medicine for nearly 150M people out of the 330M population.
  - jdmichal 5y ago
    Medicare and Medicaid are not exclusive. They call it "dual eligible". (PDF WARNING) https://www.cms.gov/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-and-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination-Office/Downloads/MMCO_Factsheet.pdf https://www.cms.gov/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-... This lists 20% of Medicare and 15% of Medicaid enrolled are dual eligible. So that's somewhere between 10.2 and 12.2 million lower, using your numbers. (And yes, those numbers are obviously off somewhere, since the two should match. But it's good enough and I'm not sure it's even possible to track down the actual numbers used in the given link.)
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Medicare and Medicaid are not exclusive. They call it "dual eligible". Good call. Forgot to consider dual eligibles; which drops it closer to 1/3 the population than half with socialized medicine.
- jodison 5y ago
  I, like many veterans, love the VA. https://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=5328 https://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=5328 My understanding is that that the veterans' choice private options would still have been payed for by the VA. https://www.va.gov/COMMUNITYCARE/providers/index.asp https://www.va.gov/COMMUNITYCARE/providers/index.asp https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1396/increase-veterans-health-care/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpomete...
- 5y ago
tryingtogetback 5y ago
Dangerously ill-informed comment. Have you ever been to a hospital in a country that embraced socialism? In some countries you pay effectively zero for socialized healthcare. What an awesome, marketable for votes delusion. Guess what. You get exactly what you paid for. Chronic mismanagement, apathy, deteriorating conditions, lack of resources. Need to schedule a procedure? Get into a virtual line 10000 persons long. "Oh you are in pain? I'm sorry. Thermometers are the only medication we can offer". In CIS countries, the only way to get something done is to bribe an official (to move you up the line by a 100 or so) or a private clinic (but socialism is so great! right?) If a country with socialized healthcare manages float it's healthcare services on an "average" (aka meh) level, it's only because of the private donors, private insurances, private donations, and financial aid and subsidies from US (but capitalism is so awful, right??) Grass is always greener aka you have no idea what you are talking about
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > or a private clinic (but socialism is so great! right?) Having to pay out of pocket after paying 50%+ tax rate! Incredible!
- majormajor 5y ago
  I have - I had an emergency procedure done within hours, without noticing particular mismanagement, apathy, deteriorating conditions, or lack of resources. It was annoying that they didn't want to give out narcotic painkillers, but given addiction rates here, understandable. Not a question of resources, just a different approach. Of course, as a foreigner who was going to have to pay cash, I can't be positive that the experience would be the same for citizens on Taiwan's national plan, but the people I was staying with said I was being treated the same as they'd seen anyone else...
- parrellel 5y ago
  I don't think the countries of the ex-USSR are what anyone is talking about when they're talking about socialized medicine.

loopz 5y ago

In many social democratic countries citizens will only pay a small fixed fee for necessary operations. For private bills, or if your travel-insurance doesn't cover medical bills in other countries, you could still get stuck with a hefty bill. In most cases, you pay peanuts and people get their health back so they can go back to work and live life as before.

gruez 5y ago
But GP was talking about countries in general, not just wealthy western social democratic countries.

codegeek 5y ago

" own bills" The problem is that Hospitals can charge any amount they feel is correct but you cannot find that out UNTIL AFTER the service is delivered. Yes you could ask for cash prices but try doing that at a regular hospital and see how quickly you get them in a clear and concise manner.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
I'm replying to you because you're the top comment, but this is a general response, because I feel like many replies have misconstrued my meaning. I am not asking what happens in countries with socialized healthcare. I'm also not asking what are the flaws of private healthcare. I am only asking, supposing that there are other countries where there is private healthcare, how those countries deal with nonpayment. If there are no other such countries the question is moot but I had been led to believe that there are some.

neurostimulant 5y ago

In my country, without insurance you will usually be required to place cash deposit before the hospital approves any expensive treatment. If you don't have any money for the deposit, you will need to secure financial assistant somewhere else first (government assistance, charity, etc). This limit hospital's risk, but put extra pressure to patients. Luckily healthcare cost is relatively cheaper here.