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> One thing I do seem to see over and over is a pattern where journalists are a little annoyed when companies encroach on the role of journalists but do so for

> One thing I do seem to see over and over is a pattern where journalists are a little annoyed when companies encroach on the role of journalists but do so for less money. While there will be some bias from being challenged, I think there's also plenty of good reasons for journalists to challenge these sorts of companies. Journalism is a profession and brings with it a lot of ethical considerations. Teaching of journalism goes into depth on why the ethics are important, how to report on sensitive topics, and all sorts that makes journalists far better qualified to report on things. There's absolutely a place for self-taught/hobbyist writing, but it's not journalism, and if we depend on it for the "important" or hard topics we'll lose out on the benefits that well trained journalists bring to the table.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
I do understand that journalists aspire to ethical behavior in aggregate. What's ultimately not entirely clear to me is whether that aspiration is generally met to the degree that the profession is materially better at truth-telling than any other. I sure hope so. Then again, you can often read reporting on the same subject by journalists at CNN and Fox News, and the one inescapable conclusion is that someone is not telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
- danpalmer 5y ago
  There's a line somewhere between political leanings in valid reporting, and pure opinion around made up topics. I don't know much about CNN, and don't watch Fox, but from what I've heard the actual news segments on Fox aren't as bad, it's the opinion shows (most of which masquerade as news) that are the bad bit. In the UK we have several popular news channels and each has their own leanings, and while I think it's important that viewers are mindful of those leanings, I don't think it's too far out there to say that one can assume they are not being out-right lied to, and it's rare for a news channel to ever say something actually dangerous. There are issues, there are complaints made, but then there are typically retractions and the issues are fairly rare, compared to what I've seen of US media.
genericone 5y ago
Then would you willing to gatekeep people from calling themselves journalists, ala a license via something like a bar exam, where violating journalistic standards could get you "disbarred".
- danpalmer 5y ago
  I'm not against the idea. Wikipedia lists around 150 professional standards organisations[0] along the lines of what could be done for journalism. Again I think there's a place for blogging, factual videos on TikTok, people working their way into the industry more organically, and special interest groups, etc. But I do think there's a need for the bulk of mainstream news to live up to the responsibility they have to the public. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartered_(professional) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartered_(professional)
- atatatat 5y ago
  Why not make a PDJ, Professional Doctor of Journalism, or similar? "Journalist" doesn't need to be co-opted by a private org or the government, does it?

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago

I do understand that journalists aspire to ethical behavior in aggregate. What's ultimately not entirely clear to me is whether that aspiration is generally met to the degree that the profession is materially better at truth-telling than any other. I sure hope so. Then again, you can often read reporting on the same subject by journalists at CNN and Fox News, and the one inescapable conclusion is that someone is not telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

danpalmer 5y ago
There's a line somewhere between political leanings in valid reporting, and pure opinion around made up topics. I don't know much about CNN, and don't watch Fox, but from what I've heard the actual news segments on Fox aren't as bad, it's the opinion shows (most of which masquerade as news) that are the bad bit. In the UK we have several popular news channels and each has their own leanings, and while I think it's important that viewers are mindful of those leanings, I don't think it's too far out there to say that one can assume they are not being out-right lied to, and it's rare for a news channel to ever say something actually dangerous. There are issues, there are complaints made, but then there are typically retractions and the issues are fairly rare, compared to what I've seen of US media.

genericone 5y ago

Then would you willing to gatekeep people from calling themselves journalists, ala a license via something like a bar exam, where violating journalistic standards could get you "disbarred".

danpalmer 5y ago
I'm not against the idea. Wikipedia lists around 150 professional standards organisations[0] along the lines of what could be done for journalism. Again I think there's a place for blogging, factual videos on TikTok, people working their way into the industry more organically, and special interest groups, etc. But I do think there's a need for the bulk of mainstream news to live up to the responsibility they have to the public. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartered_(professional) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartered_(professional)
atatatat 5y ago
Why not make a PDJ, Professional Doctor of Journalism, or similar? "Journalist" doesn't need to be co-opted by a private org or the government, does it?