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The issues I see are that EVs can't charge quickly, charging stations can't cycle cars quickly, EV range varies on additional conditions like temperature, and y

The issues I see are that EVs can't charge quickly, charging stations can't cycle cars quickly, EV range varies on additional conditions like temperature, and you can't self-sufficiently extend an EV's range. To clarify that last issue, you could fill a gas can with additional gallons of fuel to extend your range, cover yourself for an emergency situation, etc. But you cannot do this with EVs. You can't just carry a jug of extra charge or operate without the grid being nearby, online, and available. I understand that there is always some level of dependency we have on large infrastructure, but gas vehicles let you have a longer period of reliable self-sufficiency compared to EVs. I am confident the vast majority of daily trips can be covered by an EV. But I still need a gas car to do things on the weekend, to go places on holidays, to feel secure in my ability to transport myself or loved ones at will, etc. When hauling people and gear, can I really rely on the stated range of an electric SUV to go offroad to a campsite and come back? I'd feel better if they let me carry an additional battery pack in the trunk/bed to extend range but that seems to not be a focus right now. So EVs basically seem like they preclude certain use cases entirely. In a multi-car household, I still see the need for at least one gas vehicle, and don't agree with bans that try to phase them out entirely as a result.

ygjb 5y ago
Your concerns are basically straight up range anxiety. Anecdotally speaking, my previous vehicle was the only one out of 4 vehicles on camping trips for several years that had mechanical issues. The simple reality is that in most of North America you are less than 2 hours away from help in case of mechanical defect. Inside the United States, with few exceptions, it's must closer. You are just as vulnerable to mechanical failure with a gas vehicle as you are with an electric vehicle. That said, it's currently a consumer choice, but as a tax payer and a consumer I desperately want my (Canadian) government to end all subsidies for fossil fuel industries, and introduce additional taxes with a direct path to those taxes being used to subsidize and invest in electric alternatives.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  What is the breakdown of electrical power generation in your area of Canada? Your EV may still be mostly/entirely fossil-fueled.
  - eropple 5y ago
    A fossil-fueled EV by seems by all accounts I've seen to be less environmentally impactful than an ICE vehicle. https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/21/22585682/electric-vehicles-greenhouse-gas-emissions-lifecycle-assessment https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/21/22585682/electric-vehicle...
  - ygjb 5y ago
    For Canada https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/science-and-data/data-and-analysis/energy-data-and-analysis/energy-facts/electricity-facts/20068 https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/science-and-data/data-and-analysis/e... Specifically for BC, where I live: https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-commodities/electricity/report/2016-canadian-renewable-power/province/canadas-renewable-power-landscape-2016-energy-market-analysis-british-columbia.html https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-commoditie...
  - emilecantin 5y ago
    It's 100% hydro and wind in most of Québec (second-most populous province). The number for _all_ of Québec is something like 98%, but that 2% is remote communities that can't reasonably be connected to the provincial grid (like the Magdalen Islands). The main grid is 100% renewables. Source: https://www.hydroquebec.com/about/our-energy.html https://www.hydroquebec.com/about/our-energy.html
fredophile 5y ago
I drive a mazda 3. Sometimes I need to move things that don't fit in it. When that happens I rent or borrow a bigger vehicle. What's wrong with using an EV for daily driving and renting a gas vehicle for the rare trips that really need the extra range? I'm also going to point out that the mileage I saw on my car at the dealer does not match the gas mileage I get in practice. That isn't something that is unique to EVs. After driving their car for a while most people will have a good idea of what their gas mileage is for their usual routes and won't be accidentally running out of gas or charge.
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  > What's wrong with using an EV for daily driving and renting a gas vehicle for the rare trips that really need the extra range? Well right now, legislation is being discussed that bans gas vehicles outright, rather than leaving them as an option, so even your rental suggestion is precluded. I'm not a fan of bans on consumer products in general - I would rather price in externalities. Additionally, this rental model doesn't work when everyone has the same holiday weekends when they want to go out with the family, or the same great weather conditions they want to take advantage of (for example to go skiing). The surge in demand won't match up to a limited supply of rental vehicles. > I'm also going to point out that the mileage I saw on my car at the dealer does not match the gas mileage I get in practice. That isn't something that is unique to EVs. Sure, but with EVs there are more variables at play like temperature. The max range on gas vehicles is also still a lot higher than EVs - for example I can easily get over 500 miles in my SUV on a single tank even driving aggressively. Plus the range is less of an issue when I can just carry an extra can of gas or fill up in an unplanned manner virtually anywhere in the country. If we don't have portable battery packs, or battery packs that can be swapped, it's simply not an equivalent substitute.
- robomartin 5y ago
  > What's wrong with using an EV for daily driving and renting a gas vehicle for the rare trips that really need the extra range? I don't know. How about the vast majority of people don't have the economic means to do that? Most people live paycheck to paycheck. Their one and only vehicle is likely their single largest purchase. The idea of dropping hundreds of dollars to rent a vehicle simply isn't in the cards. I know people who are in this position. If the answer to the objections people have to electrics is "just rent an longer range gasoline powered car", why would anyone buy an electric car in the first place? True believers, maybe, but that is not how the average person makes a purchasing decision. I learned this reality of business the hard way many years ago. People rarely make altruistic decisions when buying anything. They want the most for their money and, for the most part, could not care less where it comes from or how it works.

ygjb 5y ago

Your concerns are basically straight up range anxiety. Anecdotally speaking, my previous vehicle was the only one out of 4 vehicles on camping trips for several years that had mechanical issues. The simple reality is that in most of North America you are less than 2 hours away from help in case of mechanical defect. Inside the United States, with few exceptions, it's must closer. You are just as vulnerable to mechanical failure with a gas vehicle as you are with an electric vehicle. That said, it's currently a consumer choice, but as a tax payer and a consumer I desperately want my (Canadian) government to end all subsidies for fossil fuel industries, and introduce additional taxes with a direct path to those taxes being used to subsidize and invest in electric alternatives.

throwawayboise 5y ago
What is the breakdown of electrical power generation in your area of Canada? Your EV may still be mostly/entirely fossil-fueled.
- eropple 5y ago
  A fossil-fueled EV by seems by all accounts I've seen to be less environmentally impactful than an ICE vehicle. https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/21/22585682/electric-vehicles-greenhouse-gas-emissions-lifecycle-assessment https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/21/22585682/electric-vehicle...
- ygjb 5y ago
  For Canada https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/science-and-data/data-and-analysis/energy-data-and-analysis/energy-facts/electricity-facts/20068 https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/science-and-data/data-and-analysis/e... Specifically for BC, where I live: https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-commodities/electricity/report/2016-canadian-renewable-power/province/canadas-renewable-power-landscape-2016-energy-market-analysis-british-columbia.html https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-commoditie...
- emilecantin 5y ago
  It's 100% hydro and wind in most of Québec (second-most populous province). The number for _all_ of Québec is something like 98%, but that 2% is remote communities that can't reasonably be connected to the provincial grid (like the Magdalen Islands). The main grid is 100% renewables. Source: https://www.hydroquebec.com/about/our-energy.html https://www.hydroquebec.com/about/our-energy.html

fredophile 5y ago

I drive a mazda 3. Sometimes I need to move things that don't fit in it. When that happens I rent or borrow a bigger vehicle. What's wrong with using an EV for daily driving and renting a gas vehicle for the rare trips that really need the extra range? I'm also going to point out that the mileage I saw on my car at the dealer does not match the gas mileage I get in practice. That isn't something that is unique to EVs. After driving their car for a while most people will have a good idea of what their gas mileage is for their usual routes and won't be accidentally running out of gas or charge.

throwawaysea 5y ago
> What's wrong with using an EV for daily driving and renting a gas vehicle for the rare trips that really need the extra range? Well right now, legislation is being discussed that bans gas vehicles outright, rather than leaving them as an option, so even your rental suggestion is precluded. I'm not a fan of bans on consumer products in general - I would rather price in externalities. Additionally, this rental model doesn't work when everyone has the same holiday weekends when they want to go out with the family, or the same great weather conditions they want to take advantage of (for example to go skiing). The surge in demand won't match up to a limited supply of rental vehicles. > I'm also going to point out that the mileage I saw on my car at the dealer does not match the gas mileage I get in practice. That isn't something that is unique to EVs. Sure, but with EVs there are more variables at play like temperature. The max range on gas vehicles is also still a lot higher than EVs - for example I can easily get over 500 miles in my SUV on a single tank even driving aggressively. Plus the range is less of an issue when I can just carry an extra can of gas or fill up in an unplanned manner virtually anywhere in the country. If we don't have portable battery packs, or battery packs that can be swapped, it's simply not an equivalent substitute.
robomartin 5y ago
> What's wrong with using an EV for daily driving and renting a gas vehicle for the rare trips that really need the extra range? I don't know. How about the vast majority of people don't have the economic means to do that? Most people live paycheck to paycheck. Their one and only vehicle is likely their single largest purchase. The idea of dropping hundreds of dollars to rent a vehicle simply isn't in the cards. I know people who are in this position. If the answer to the objections people have to electrics is "just rent an longer range gasoline powered car", why would anyone buy an electric car in the first place? True believers, maybe, but that is not how the average person makes a purchasing decision. I learned this reality of business the hard way many years ago. People rarely make altruistic decisions when buying anything. They want the most for their money and, for the most part, could not care less where it comes from or how it works.