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> I've said this so many times: But what does it doooooo??? Are you asking about Bitcoin or Crypto? Bitcoin doesn't do much atm, but Ethereum does stuff, and B

> I've said this so many times: But what does it doooooo??? Are you asking about Bitcoin or Crypto? Bitcoin doesn't do much atm, but Ethereum does stuff, and Bitcoin Cash is pretty practical as a currency at the moment. There's plenty that can be done, but the market will have to decide what to converge on.

abeppu 5y ago
Does Ethereum do stuff well or efficiently? My understanding is that gas prices have been both high and unpredictable, and as such even for use cases where smart contracts make sense in the abstract, it can be impractical to use it b/c the overhead would be too high.
- noxer 5y ago
  Does it matter? BTC and ETH are the version 1 of something "new". The version one is the playground. There is plenty demand for ETH/BTC like systems without the inefficiencies and so people are building better systems. Flare is an new project that will (maybe, probably, who knows) be able to run everything ETH can because it uses the EVM but it does not use PoW or PoS and thus will not have the fees and slowness. Maybe Flare will still not cut it and die like the countless other projects then something else will come. Its just tech/code in the end. When it comes to real utility people will use whatever there is that delivers. Unlike with the whole gambling where people mostly set their money on the big coins regardless of if its actually useful (its mostly not). There are some big companies out there building amazing stuff. Crypto people especially bitcoin people often hate them because they represent the "real world" with banks and regulations and all that. And ofc they dont build anything on BTC because its tech s*cks and is p much useless for anything beside speculation Both BTC and ETH could be gone some day, the technology however will not go away. Most of the "bad" thing people point out is exclusively to PoW system anyway, like the whole energy wasting things. Its completely irrelevant for 99% of all other projects. Its kinda like if people would yell at cars because there are these huge diesel trucks that blow out black smoke in a world where ~99% of all cares are EVs. And then comes an article like this one here calling for banning cars because of the black smoke he saw the other day. Reality check: We dont ban cars because some cares blow out black smoke. We dont ban crypto because some (one) uses whole coal mines of energy.
  - abeppu 5y ago
    to summarize: - in an ancestor post, crypto skeptic asks "but what does it doooo?" - response, "Bitcoin doesn't do much, but Ethereum does stuff" - me, skeptical "But does Ethereum actually do stuff?" - answer: "no, but something else in the future might" We're 13 years into blockchain technologies, and it seems like there's still not a convincing case of it being a good, useful solution to a real need. Saying that the next thing will be better stretches credulity.
    - noxer 5y ago
      You have to differ between use-case and tech A good use-case likely does not work on the popular tech that we have today. Like the original use-case of p2p-money (ignore if this use-case actually makes sense or not). It does not work with bitcoin, its way to slow and expensive. Now if you create a new "bitcoin" that does work for the use case p2p-cash then this should in theory replace the old bitcoin. But in reality it does not. Bitcoin turned into a gambling thing and tribalism over what the real bitcoin is and should do. And your actual solution likely gets no attention at all because its just one of many thousands of other blockchains from which 99+% are useless and probably hundred also say they solved the p2p-cash problem. The chance to taking over bitcoin is essentially zero in the near time future it doesn't matter how much better something is. We have tech that objectively way way better than bitcoin since at lest 8 years now and no one who is not into crypto has ever heard form it. Low TPS/Longe blocktims/energy consumption etc. etc. all solved problems since many many years, yet this is what mainstream crypto talks about. So your better bitcoin does not "succeed" since 8+ years... Does that mean the tech you made for p2p-cash is bad/useless? Does that mean the tech does not work for the use-case? Does that mean another XX years without anything useful coming out? It sure looks like that but maybe it just means that everyone else has no clue what tech and use-cases actually could/would/do work because they are all in the shadow of the big 1 coin that failed at everything it tired to be but gets all the attention anyway. I'm not saying the next thing will magically do everything better. But its just a matter of time before projects that actually do something get the attention. It may take a long long time for that to happen. Most of the new people who came into the crypto space in the last years are in no way able to distinguish between useless stuff like bitcoin, stuff that is straight out a scams and stuff that actually solve a problem better than solutions without blockchain tech could. They are often not even into tech, they are into money. All the scams would not work if a majority of people would have a decent understanding of the tech. And even the people who have the skills, can not evaluate the different techs in a meaningful way. Ive dug into many projects myself over the years and almost everything is useless but most I will never even look at because it somehow has to get my attention first. Nonetheless there is n doubt the tech is revolutionary and it will sooner or later power stuff normal people use likely without them knowing, also likely stuff that has nothing to do with money. Its kinda funny how the whole crypto space focuses on how to use the tech with money but there so much more that can be done.
Jasper_ 5y ago
OK then, what does it do? Feel free to tell me. I've asked a lot of times and have never gotten a good response.
- snejad123 5y ago
  Stop trying to play cute. If smart contracts decentralize services that means that vendors collect money directly from the user with all the middle men reduced to a governable smart contract. What does this mean ? Do you really need handholding to figure it out ? It means that services will incur less fees for the client, and end up putting more money in the pocket of the vendor. More money from the same transaction to the vendor == value by definition to the vendor. Less fees from the same transaction for the client == value by definition to the user. Saving money on services is perhaps the greatest value to society you can do. Who wouldn't want more money ? Is this not valuable to you ?
- basch 5y ago
  Quite simply, escrow. Programming complex escrow, that holds and releases funds when appropriate conditions are met. People have bundled many escrow statements together to create entire banks. People can pool different currencies together to create liquidity pools and exchanges between currencies. It's not all that different from (transfer)wise except a bit less owned by one central firm. It can be "pay this vendor when this thing ships" or "pay out this pot when this event or game score happens." Any measurable metric online can turn into the IF of an if then statement.
- short 5y ago
  If you are genuinely interested, one nice example is this animated short series that sold out yesterday in half an hour: https://www.stonercats.com/faq https://www.stonercats.com/faq It sold NFTs (characters from the show with random properties, look at https://opensea.io/collection/stoner-cats-official https://opensea.io/collection/stoner-cats-official for some examples) and each owner of an NFT obtains the right to view the actual episode when released. As these NFTs can be resold, people are collecting their favorite characters, bidding against each other. The makers of the series get a kickback for each sell Because this is on Ethereum, this unlocks all sorts of other possibilities, some of which are described in the FAQ. Additionally: * people could rent out their NFT in the future for others to view the episodes * NFTs can be used as collateral for loans * the makers of the series could distribute additional earnings back to the NFT holders Of course, this is doable without a blockchain. But then it wouldn't have these directly on launch: * a platform to sell the initial set of NFTs, publicly accessible and distributed provably fair * a large number of wallets (and websites), all able to visualize the NFT to their owners * a simple method of restricting access to the series to NFT buyers
snejad123 5y ago
Bitcoin does a lot. A store of value that hedges against government inflation is by definition a valuable service. I don't understand why everyone is looking for a swiss-army knife like application from BTC. The value has already been proven in the marketplace, hence why everyone is buying it.
- opheliate 5y ago
  I'm sure everyone who bought bitcoin at >$50,000 would have something to say about whether its utility as a "store of value" has been proven in the marketplace.
  - snejad123 5y ago
    They will in 5 years when it's worth 2x that.
    - opheliate 5y ago
      So it's actually a speculative instrument then?
      - ikerdanzel 5y ago
        There is a reason Fed and central banks exists. Governments just have to ban the transaction of crypto to any hard currencies and there goes the 2x in 5 years. The works to ban are now in the works and will be rolled out within that time frame. Good luck holding it for 2x. It will have values, but not for mass consumers markets. It is a musical chairs except the last one won't really get the chair to sit but more like a spiky seat.

abeppu 5y ago

Does Ethereum do stuff well or efficiently? My understanding is that gas prices have been both high and unpredictable, and as such even for use cases where smart contracts make sense in the abstract, it can be impractical to use it b/c the overhead would be too high.

noxer 5y ago
Does it matter? BTC and ETH are the version 1 of something "new". The version one is the playground. There is plenty demand for ETH/BTC like systems without the inefficiencies and so people are building better systems. Flare is an new project that will (maybe, probably, who knows) be able to run everything ETH can because it uses the EVM but it does not use PoW or PoS and thus will not have the fees and slowness. Maybe Flare will still not cut it and die like the countless other projects then something else will come. Its just tech/code in the end. When it comes to real utility people will use whatever there is that delivers. Unlike with the whole gambling where people mostly set their money on the big coins regardless of if its actually useful (its mostly not). There are some big companies out there building amazing stuff. Crypto people especially bitcoin people often hate them because they represent the "real world" with banks and regulations and all that. And ofc they dont build anything on BTC because its tech s*cks and is p much useless for anything beside speculation Both BTC and ETH could be gone some day, the technology however will not go away. Most of the "bad" thing people point out is exclusively to PoW system anyway, like the whole energy wasting things. Its completely irrelevant for 99% of all other projects. Its kinda like if people would yell at cars because there are these huge diesel trucks that blow out black smoke in a world where ~99% of all cares are EVs. And then comes an article like this one here calling for banning cars because of the black smoke he saw the other day. Reality check: We dont ban cars because some cares blow out black smoke. We dont ban crypto because some (one) uses whole coal mines of energy.
- abeppu 5y ago
  to summarize: - in an ancestor post, crypto skeptic asks "but what does it doooo?" - response, "Bitcoin doesn't do much, but Ethereum does stuff" - me, skeptical "But does Ethereum actually do stuff?" - answer: "no, but something else in the future might" We're 13 years into blockchain technologies, and it seems like there's still not a convincing case of it being a good, useful solution to a real need. Saying that the next thing will be better stretches credulity.
  - noxer 5y ago
    You have to differ between use-case and tech A good use-case likely does not work on the popular tech that we have today. Like the original use-case of p2p-money (ignore if this use-case actually makes sense or not). It does not work with bitcoin, its way to slow and expensive. Now if you create a new "bitcoin" that does work for the use case p2p-cash then this should in theory replace the old bitcoin. But in reality it does not. Bitcoin turned into a gambling thing and tribalism over what the real bitcoin is and should do. And your actual solution likely gets no attention at all because its just one of many thousands of other blockchains from which 99+% are useless and probably hundred also say they solved the p2p-cash problem. The chance to taking over bitcoin is essentially zero in the near time future it doesn't matter how much better something is. We have tech that objectively way way better than bitcoin since at lest 8 years now and no one who is not into crypto has ever heard form it. Low TPS/Longe blocktims/energy consumption etc. etc. all solved problems since many many years, yet this is what mainstream crypto talks about. So your better bitcoin does not "succeed" since 8+ years... Does that mean the tech you made for p2p-cash is bad/useless? Does that mean the tech does not work for the use-case? Does that mean another XX years without anything useful coming out? It sure looks like that but maybe it just means that everyone else has no clue what tech and use-cases actually could/would/do work because they are all in the shadow of the big 1 coin that failed at everything it tired to be but gets all the attention anyway. I'm not saying the next thing will magically do everything better. But its just a matter of time before projects that actually do something get the attention. It may take a long long time for that to happen. Most of the new people who came into the crypto space in the last years are in no way able to distinguish between useless stuff like bitcoin, stuff that is straight out a scams and stuff that actually solve a problem better than solutions without blockchain tech could. They are often not even into tech, they are into money. All the scams would not work if a majority of people would have a decent understanding of the tech. And even the people who have the skills, can not evaluate the different techs in a meaningful way. Ive dug into many projects myself over the years and almost everything is useless but most I will never even look at because it somehow has to get my attention first. Nonetheless there is n doubt the tech is revolutionary and it will sooner or later power stuff normal people use likely without them knowing, also likely stuff that has nothing to do with money. Its kinda funny how the whole crypto space focuses on how to use the tech with money but there so much more that can be done.

Jasper_ 5y ago

OK then, what does it do? Feel free to tell me. I've asked a lot of times and have never gotten a good response.

snejad123 5y ago
Stop trying to play cute. If smart contracts decentralize services that means that vendors collect money directly from the user with all the middle men reduced to a governable smart contract. What does this mean ? Do you really need handholding to figure it out ? It means that services will incur less fees for the client, and end up putting more money in the pocket of the vendor. More money from the same transaction to the vendor == value by definition to the vendor. Less fees from the same transaction for the client == value by definition to the user. Saving money on services is perhaps the greatest value to society you can do. Who wouldn't want more money ? Is this not valuable to you ?
basch 5y ago
Quite simply, escrow. Programming complex escrow, that holds and releases funds when appropriate conditions are met. People have bundled many escrow statements together to create entire banks. People can pool different currencies together to create liquidity pools and exchanges between currencies. It's not all that different from (transfer)wise except a bit less owned by one central firm. It can be "pay this vendor when this thing ships" or "pay out this pot when this event or game score happens." Any measurable metric online can turn into the IF of an if then statement.
short 5y ago
If you are genuinely interested, one nice example is this animated short series that sold out yesterday in half an hour: https://www.stonercats.com/faq https://www.stonercats.com/faq It sold NFTs (characters from the show with random properties, look at https://opensea.io/collection/stoner-cats-official https://opensea.io/collection/stoner-cats-official for some examples) and each owner of an NFT obtains the right to view the actual episode when released. As these NFTs can be resold, people are collecting their favorite characters, bidding against each other. The makers of the series get a kickback for each sell Because this is on Ethereum, this unlocks all sorts of other possibilities, some of which are described in the FAQ. Additionally: * people could rent out their NFT in the future for others to view the episodes * NFTs can be used as collateral for loans * the makers of the series could distribute additional earnings back to the NFT holders Of course, this is doable without a blockchain. But then it wouldn't have these directly on launch: * a platform to sell the initial set of NFTs, publicly accessible and distributed provably fair * a large number of wallets (and websites), all able to visualize the NFT to their owners * a simple method of restricting access to the series to NFT buyers

snejad123 5y ago

Bitcoin does a lot. A store of value that hedges against government inflation is by definition a valuable service. I don't understand why everyone is looking for a swiss-army knife like application from BTC. The value has already been proven in the marketplace, hence why everyone is buying it.

opheliate 5y ago
I'm sure everyone who bought bitcoin at >$50,000 would have something to say about whether its utility as a "store of value" has been proven in the marketplace.
- snejad123 5y ago
  They will in 5 years when it's worth 2x that.
  - opheliate 5y ago
    So it's actually a speculative instrument then?
    - ikerdanzel 5y ago
      There is a reason Fed and central banks exists. Governments just have to ban the transaction of crypto to any hard currencies and there goes the 2x in 5 years. The works to ban are now in the works and will be rolled out within that time frame. Good luck holding it for 2x. It will have values, but not for mass consumers markets. It is a musical chairs except the last one won't really get the chair to sit but more like a spiky seat.