7 ms·

Is that 750 EUR for an individual or a family? Sounds like a lot. For comparison in California, a 35-year-old SF resident earning $250k/yr living alone purchas

Is that 750 EUR for an individual or a family? Sounds like a lot. For comparison in California, a 35-year-old SF resident earning $250k/yr living alone purchasing insurance through the public marketplace can get a Platinum-level Kaiser Permanente HMO plan for around $650/mo (but over $2000/mo for a family of four). YMMV but I've found KP's service quality to be extremely high, and that plan comes with $0 annual deductible and very low copays.

TMWNN 5y ago
>YMMV but I've found KP's service quality to be extremely high Multiple studies have shown that Kaiser is more efficient and effective than the UK NHS for about the same cost. Examples: * https://www.bmj.com/content/324/7330/135 https://www.bmj.com/content/324/7330/135 * https://www.bmj.com/content/327/7426/1257 https://www.bmj.com/content/327/7426/1257
- rattray 5y ago
  Fascinating! Thank you for sharing those 2002/2003 articles. For completeness, it looks like a 2004 rebuttal claims that this is due to a healthier population: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1266198/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1266198/ but frankly that does confirm that relatively healthy, employed populations would prefer Kaiser to the NHS.
domsom 5y ago
It's 14.6 % of the gross income, capped around 58k income / year. Half of that (7.3 %) is paid by the employer, the other half by the employee (deducted from monthly wage payments). For that, kids (no matter how many) are covered unless the other parent has a private insurance. Spouses are covered if they don't have their own insurance. Based in Germany, I'd say the best part of it is that it's truly social: The healthy ones pay for the sick ones, all with the same tariff, no questions asked. That's especially true for people who become sick, old, or both: For them, private insurances tend to raise their tariffs exponentially, and there's no way to get an affordable insurance any longer.
- rattray 5y ago
  Ah, so more like 350€/yr, including all dependents, for an employed person. That is a much better deal than (self-employed) KP, assuming the quality is good!
  - wheels 5y ago
    No, nowhere closed to that. There seems to be some confusion because Americans tend to quote things in yearly rates, while Germans tend to quote things in monthly rates. I pay just over €10k/year for my public health insurance in Germany, which is the maximum rate. (I'm self-employed, so I pay the full rate.) But that covered my whole family (wife and two kids) when my wife wasn't working. Now that she's a full-time employee, she pays around half of that (because her employer pays the other half).
    - rattray 5y ago
      Ah, ok. Thanks for the more apples-to-apples comparison. Sounds like the high-end California equivalent would be around $25k/yr, more than twice as much for a high-income self-employed head of household.
      - wheels 5y ago
        A couple other interesting points: - You get that same coverage level at any income. - There's no co-pay on anything (with some exceptions for higher-end elective dental work, e.g. if you want an implant instead of a bridge). What something costs is never a factor in treatment. The doctors simply decide what they think is appropriate. - Prices, again, at the same coverage level, drop down to next to nothing if you have no income. I paid €1,400/year when I was living on savings and starting my company.
  - rattray 5y ago
    350€/mo*

TMWNN 5y ago

>YMMV but I've found KP's service quality to be extremely high Multiple studies have shown that Kaiser is more efficient and effective than the UK NHS for about the same cost. Examples: * https://www.bmj.com/content/324/7330/135 https://www.bmj.com/content/324/7330/135 * https://www.bmj.com/content/327/7426/1257 https://www.bmj.com/content/327/7426/1257

rattray 5y ago
Fascinating! Thank you for sharing those 2002/2003 articles. For completeness, it looks like a 2004 rebuttal claims that this is due to a healthier population: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1266198/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1266198/ but frankly that does confirm that relatively healthy, employed populations would prefer Kaiser to the NHS.

domsom 5y ago

It's 14.6 % of the gross income, capped around 58k income / year. Half of that (7.3 %) is paid by the employer, the other half by the employee (deducted from monthly wage payments). For that, kids (no matter how many) are covered unless the other parent has a private insurance. Spouses are covered if they don't have their own insurance. Based in Germany, I'd say the best part of it is that it's truly social: The healthy ones pay for the sick ones, all with the same tariff, no questions asked. That's especially true for people who become sick, old, or both: For them, private insurances tend to raise their tariffs exponentially, and there's no way to get an affordable insurance any longer.

rattray 5y ago
Ah, so more like 350€/yr, including all dependents, for an employed person. That is a much better deal than (self-employed) KP, assuming the quality is good!
- wheels 5y ago
  No, nowhere closed to that. There seems to be some confusion because Americans tend to quote things in yearly rates, while Germans tend to quote things in monthly rates. I pay just over €10k/year for my public health insurance in Germany, which is the maximum rate. (I'm self-employed, so I pay the full rate.) But that covered my whole family (wife and two kids) when my wife wasn't working. Now that she's a full-time employee, she pays around half of that (because her employer pays the other half).
  - rattray 5y ago
    Ah, ok. Thanks for the more apples-to-apples comparison. Sounds like the high-end California equivalent would be around $25k/yr, more than twice as much for a high-income self-employed head of household.
    - wheels 5y ago
      A couple other interesting points: - You get that same coverage level at any income. - There's no co-pay on anything (with some exceptions for higher-end elective dental work, e.g. if you want an implant instead of a bridge). What something costs is never a factor in treatment. The doctors simply decide what they think is appropriate. - Prices, again, at the same coverage level, drop down to next to nothing if you have no income. I paid €1,400/year when I was living on savings and starting my company.
- rattray 5y ago
  350€/mo*