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The reality is that Toyota has an antique model of amortizing an engine design over too long. the CAFE regulations put them in a tough spot because the overall

The reality is that Toyota has an antique model of amortizing an engine design over too long. the CAFE regulations put them in a tough spot because the overall fleet has to reach a certain MPG. For a long time they made it work with the prius bring the average high so the 5.7L v8 in the Tundra, Land Cruiser, and sequoia, and the 4.6L in the 4Runner, Tacoma, and FJ Cruiser could continue to get very low specific power output / liter and very poor mileage. They reacted to the regulations by creating 1 very effective vehicle, and letting all the others suck.

nvahalik 5y ago
You say "suck" but Toyota vehicles are some of the best and longest-lasting vehicles out there. The resale value stays high for new models and old models just keep running. I've only had one non-Toyota So, "suck" in terms of MPG, but in terms of long term value, they are great cars and trucks.
- abakker 5y ago
  yes - they are well engineered, and part of this is large engines with low specific output. If you design an engine that can easily make 500hp with a tune, but instead configure it to make 300, it will last a long time. Net of the emissions to manufacture a truck, I wonder if longer lasting drive train is actually better for the environment than marginally lower emissions? I suspect not, because I suspect that peers in the industry achieve lower emissions and similar lifespans with just a few more repairs. Source: I have owned many Toyotas: LX470, Tundra, camry, Rx440h. All of them were reliable. All of them were unimpressive from an engine POV. the 13mpg on my tundra makes me sad.
  - nvahalik 5y ago
    > the 13mpg on my tundra makes me sad. Yeah. Me too. I can get to 17/18 on the highway if I drive it right, but it almost seems like I can literally watch the gauge go down as I travel a longer distance.
jrsj 5y ago
They sell very few Tundras & Sequoias, I’m not so sure about the other vehicles. Hybridized trucks and body on frame SUVs are coming within this year though. They simply invest less into vehicles they sell fewer of. The Corolla and Camry get excellent gas mileage even for not being hybrids though. Part of the issue here is a shift in consumer preference towards SUVs, in particular vehicles like the RAV4 and Highlander which get much worse gas mileage even if the powertrains are more efficient.
arh68 5y ago
It's a 4.0L in the 4Runner (still 17 MPG), and now a 3.5L Atkinson cycle in the Tacoma. The majority of their sales are neither Priuses nor Tacomas, though (efficiency outliers be sales outliers, too). CAFE factors are going to be weighted by production numbers (right?), so as long as they sell 10x as many Corollas & Camrys as Land Cruisers the spot's not so tight. I definitely agree the 5.7L in the Tundra/Sequoia gets horrible mileage and that's why I see many times more F-150s near me.

nvahalik 5y ago

You say "suck" but Toyota vehicles are some of the best and longest-lasting vehicles out there. The resale value stays high for new models and old models just keep running. I've only had one non-Toyota So, "suck" in terms of MPG, but in terms of long term value, they are great cars and trucks.

abakker 5y ago
yes - they are well engineered, and part of this is large engines with low specific output. If you design an engine that can easily make 500hp with a tune, but instead configure it to make 300, it will last a long time. Net of the emissions to manufacture a truck, I wonder if longer lasting drive train is actually better for the environment than marginally lower emissions? I suspect not, because I suspect that peers in the industry achieve lower emissions and similar lifespans with just a few more repairs. Source: I have owned many Toyotas: LX470, Tundra, camry, Rx440h. All of them were reliable. All of them were unimpressive from an engine POV. the 13mpg on my tundra makes me sad.
- nvahalik 5y ago
  > the 13mpg on my tundra makes me sad. Yeah. Me too. I can get to 17/18 on the highway if I drive it right, but it almost seems like I can literally watch the gauge go down as I travel a longer distance.

jrsj 5y ago

They sell very few Tundras & Sequoias, I’m not so sure about the other vehicles. Hybridized trucks and body on frame SUVs are coming within this year though. They simply invest less into vehicles they sell fewer of. The Corolla and Camry get excellent gas mileage even for not being hybrids though. Part of the issue here is a shift in consumer preference towards SUVs, in particular vehicles like the RAV4 and Highlander which get much worse gas mileage even if the powertrains are more efficient.

arh68 5y ago

It's a 4.0L in the 4Runner (still 17 MPG), and now a 3.5L Atkinson cycle in the Tacoma. The majority of their sales are neither Priuses nor Tacomas, though (efficiency outliers be sales outliers, too). CAFE factors are going to be weighted by production numbers (right?), so as long as they sell 10x as many Corollas & Camrys as Land Cruisers the spot's not so tight. I definitely agree the 5.7L in the Tundra/Sequoia gets horrible mileage and that's why I see many times more F-150s near me.