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Their post meets both criteria. Their description of the issue is not hyperbolic; it is a brief but reasonable and accurate description of the failure of Americ

by bsanr 5y ago

Their post meets both criteria. Their description of the issue is not hyperbolic; it is a brief but reasonable and accurate description of the failure of American policing. Their description of the solution is well-reasoned: it is not unreasonable to suggest that we should prefer an institution facing intractable flaws be deconstructed and replaced with a new one. I do think it's unreasonable to expect a detailed description of this solution off-the-cuff. A simple search would have provided you with that, though: https://defundthepolice.org/alternatives-to-police-services/ https://defundthepolice.org/alternatives-to-police-services/

dolni 5y ago
> Their description of the issue is not hyperbolic Saying that police are never held accountable is, in fact, hyperbolic. > Their description of the solution is well-reasoned There's no reasoning beyond first order "this thing sucks, progress isn't fast enough, it has to go". No consideration is given to the second or third order effects of such a massive change. So no, it isn't "well-reasoned." > I do think it's unreasonable to expect a detailed description of this solution off-the-cuff. Hacker News is _supposed_ to be a place for curious and insightful discussion. Not just issuing complaints about the social issues of the day. I made an attempt to engage in order to try and produce something substantive, but that fell flat pretty quickly because no effort was made to produce something well-reasoned. > A simple search would have provided you with that, though: https://defundthepolice.org/alternatives-to-police-services/ https://defundthepolice.org/alternatives-to-police-services/ A simple search yielding a page that ignorantly proclaims "But we have to remember that police do not prevent violence." Who responds to mass-shootings in progress? Did a cop not prevent someone from being stabbed in the Makhia Bryant case? Does solving cases and locking up the right people who are violet not prevent them from committing further crimes? Your own link is agenda pushing, not a serious analysis of how & why policing has reached its current state, how this new system will avoid the same fate, and largely avoids talking about the potential problems of this new system.
- bsanr 5y ago
  >Hacker News is _supposed_ to be a place for curious and insightful discussion. A reddit-style per-statement rebuttal would seem to be antithetical to that. You don't seem curious, you seem like you have an agenda. EDIT: I'm going to further defend the link. It is exactly what you asked for: a detailed description of the ways in which policing is lacking as a public service and the initiatives that would replace it. That you singled out a single quote which you have ideological (and flawed) disagreements with does not change that face. Splitting policing into multiple institutions with specific focuses (per the link: mental health, traffic, violent crime and gender-based crime, investigative services, and minor crime) would allow governments to optimize recruitment and training and to create new institution-specific cultures free from the baggage of modern policing. The link specifically points out the detrimental effect modern policing has on black citizens and communities of color and how they (along with the rest of the population) would benefit from the changes suggested. I have a hard time believing that you would be against this end, and assuming that you're not, I would love to hear your alternative solutions for countering the widespread abuse, corruption, and hostility police visit upon communities of color.

by bsanr 5y ago

dolni 5y ago

> Their description of the issue is not hyperbolic Saying that police are never held accountable is, in fact, hyperbolic. > Their description of the solution is well-reasoned There's no reasoning beyond first order "this thing sucks, progress isn't fast enough, it has to go". No consideration is given to the second or third order effects of such a massive change. So no, it isn't "well-reasoned." > I do think it's unreasonable to expect a detailed description of this solution off-the-cuff. Hacker News is _supposed_ to be a place for curious and insightful discussion. Not just issuing complaints about the social issues of the day. I made an attempt to engage in order to try and produce something substantive, but that fell flat pretty quickly because no effort was made to produce something well-reasoned. > A simple search would have provided you with that, though: https://defundthepolice.org/alternatives-to-police-services/ https://defundthepolice.org/alternatives-to-police-services/ A simple search yielding a page that ignorantly proclaims "But we have to remember that police do not prevent violence." Who responds to mass-shootings in progress? Did a cop not prevent someone from being stabbed in the Makhia Bryant case? Does solving cases and locking up the right people who are violet not prevent them from committing further crimes? Your own link is agenda pushing, not a serious analysis of how & why policing has reached its current state, how this new system will avoid the same fate, and largely avoids talking about the potential problems of this new system.

bsanr 5y ago
>Hacker News is _supposed_ to be a place for curious and insightful discussion. A reddit-style per-statement rebuttal would seem to be antithetical to that. You don't seem curious, you seem like you have an agenda. EDIT: I'm going to further defend the link. It is exactly what you asked for: a detailed description of the ways in which policing is lacking as a public service and the initiatives that would replace it. That you singled out a single quote which you have ideological (and flawed) disagreements with does not change that face. Splitting policing into multiple institutions with specific focuses (per the link: mental health, traffic, violent crime and gender-based crime, investigative services, and minor crime) would allow governments to optimize recruitment and training and to create new institution-specific cultures free from the baggage of modern policing. The link specifically points out the detrimental effect modern policing has on black citizens and communities of color and how they (along with the rest of the population) would benefit from the changes suggested. I have a hard time believing that you would be against this end, and assuming that you're not, I would love to hear your alternative solutions for countering the widespread abuse, corruption, and hostility police visit upon communities of color.