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My wife and I recently purchased a new car. We have strongly been considering an EV, but went with a hybrid because even though EVs were well within our price r

My wife and I recently purchased a new car. We have strongly been considering an EV, but went with a hybrid because even though EVs were well within our price range, we couldn't depend on one. The infrastructure just isn't there, nor is the range. Maybe when we replace our other car it will make sense as that one is driven much shorter distances and we'd have the other one for longer distances (both are hybrids). This isn't even getting into issues with having to upgrade our electrical box and wiring to handle car charging in our garage. I would never buy a Tesla because I see better options in the EV space, but I do give them a lot of credit and thanks for introducing competition in the area and turning EVs into a product to covet. To me that's always been the best way to handle these sorts of things, to introduce competition and win people over. Lightbulbs were the same way -- the arguments died when quality affordable LEDs came on the market and took away any argument for anything else. When there's big range, reliable and affordable EVs with quick ubiquitous charging, people will flock to EVs. Sometimes I feel like these discussions are in a bubble, to be honest. When I think of the people I know, and what's in the parking lot, getting them to migrate to a hybrid is really where there would be any movement. Maybe someday they'll just jump to an EV and skip hybrids but at the moment there's lots of people who won't even consider anything but a full combustion system. I also don't really fault Toyota for pursuing hydrogen and would really like to see that continue at least as a research focus. It is much more energy dense and solves a lot of problems. I realize it's not as fully there yet as EVs, but EVs aren't either if anyone is being completely honest. The article casts Toyota in a nefarious light, but in some ways I feel like if the government is going to get involved and start playing favorites, they should do so in a competitive and diversified way. Otherwise maybe they should get out of the way and just incentivize competition per se. In fact, if the EV market is so healthy, maybe the government should be subsidizing alternatives like hydrogen?

evanrich 5y ago
> I would never buy a Tesla because I see better options in the EV space Out of curiosity, who do you see as a better option and why?
- fossuser 5y ago
  I'm also curious - I looked at a lot of EVs (maybe all that were available?) before getting the Model 3 (and had a Fiat 500e prior to that). None of them really came close in features and most were not competitive on cost either.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- notJim 5y ago
  I don't see how this could be true, Tesla is way ahead of everyone in terms of charging infrastructure. The Mach-E and Id.4 both look like good cars, but Electrify America is still smaller, and having some growing pains. I think Tesla may have real competitors in the very short term, but not quite yet. The only thing is that some people may not care about fast charging, because you really don't need it most of the time, especially if you have another ICE car for road trips.
antattack 5y ago
> I would never buy a Tesla because I see better options in the EV space, Only Tesla EVs have range over 300miles EPA and cost less than 50k.
- notJim 5y ago
  Not true, Ford Mach-E is $42k at 305 EPA. $36k after tax credit, so even cheaper.
  - antattack 5y ago
    42k is already after tax credit (and it's RWD only) https://www.ford.com/suvs/mach-e/models/mach-e-california-route-1/ https://www.ford.com/suvs/mach-e/models/mach-e-california-ro... And Ford dealers are likely to sell them above MSRP. Or, at least they will try: https://www.teslarati.com/ford-mustang-mach-e-10-k-doc-fee-misunderstanding/ https://www.teslarati.com/ford-mustang-mach-e-10-k-doc-fee-m...
    - notJim 5y ago
      Oh wow, their marketing pages are very misleading. They list the best stats for each model, but no model exists that has that combo of stats.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  I'm worried there's a reason they're so cheap - they don't seem to have good build quality.
  - antattack 5y ago
    85 percent of Model 3 owners are "very satisfied" with the ownership experience, the most of all EV owners, in Norway. It's a good stat to go by since that market has the most EVs per capita in the world. https://insideevs.com/news/522710/tesla-owners-satisfaction-survey-norway/ https://insideevs.com/news/522710/tesla-owners-satisfaction-...
nickik 5y ago
> I would never buy a Tesla because I see better options in the EV space Tesla might not be your taste, but every test and comparison shows that Tesla is at the top or at least incredible competitive. > To me that's always been the best way to handle these sorts of things, to introduce competition and win people over. That's exactly what has happened already. > I also don't really fault Toyota for pursuing hydrogen You mean talking about hydrogen while trying to prevent cleaner fuel laws and zero emission vehicles. Yeah you really can't blame gigantic cooperation from lobbying against the environment. Where would we be if cooperation could be criticized like that. > I realize it's not as fully there yet as EVs, but EVs aren't either EV are going totally gang busters and are on a massive growth curve. They are on an incredibly fast adoption curve, as faster then many expected and its going faster. They are there, but it still needs time. > In fact, if the EV market is so healthy, maybe the government should be subsidizing alternatives like hydrogen? Why? Why would you dumb money in a technology stack that has gotten government money for 50 years and has shown absolutely no success what so ever and is worse for the environment by far. What is the logic in that. Seems much more important to replace ICE vehicles then to fight EV with FCV. Wouldn't you say?
notJim 5y ago
If you're in the US, this comment really makes no sense to me, unless you live in or visit rural areas very frequently. Teslas are practical EVs right now for those who can afford them. Most charging happens at home, and there are plenty of superchargers along major highways. Additionally, many cities have level 2 charging, so if you're going to be in a city for even an afternoon you can charge up quite a bit even if there's no supercharging. If it's only an occasional trip where charging is not available, you could rent a car. > I would never buy a Tesla because I see better options in the EV space Tesla has by far the best charging network, so if you ruled them out right away, then I could understand your comment. Electrify America is growing rapidly, and I'm pretty bullish on their network over the next couple of years. > When I think of the people I know, and what's in the parking lot, getting them to migrate to a hybrid is really where there would be any movement. Maybe someday they'll just jump to an EV and skip hybrids but at the moment there's lots of people who won't even consider anything but a full combustion system. I don't really see why. EVs are a bit of a mindset shift (charging at home…), but I don't see the major practical hurdles you do.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

evanrich 5y ago

> I would never buy a Tesla because I see better options in the EV space Out of curiosity, who do you see as a better option and why?

fossuser 5y ago
I'm also curious - I looked at a lot of EVs (maybe all that were available?) before getting the Model 3 (and had a Fiat 500e prior to that). None of them really came close in features and most were not competitive on cost either.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
notJim 5y ago
I don't see how this could be true, Tesla is way ahead of everyone in terms of charging infrastructure. The Mach-E and Id.4 both look like good cars, but Electrify America is still smaller, and having some growing pains. I think Tesla may have real competitors in the very short term, but not quite yet. The only thing is that some people may not care about fast charging, because you really don't need it most of the time, especially if you have another ICE car for road trips.

antattack 5y ago

> I would never buy a Tesla because I see better options in the EV space, Only Tesla EVs have range over 300miles EPA and cost less than 50k.

notJim 5y ago
Not true, Ford Mach-E is $42k at 305 EPA. $36k after tax credit, so even cheaper.
- antattack 5y ago
  42k is already after tax credit (and it's RWD only) https://www.ford.com/suvs/mach-e/models/mach-e-california-route-1/ https://www.ford.com/suvs/mach-e/models/mach-e-california-ro... And Ford dealers are likely to sell them above MSRP. Or, at least they will try: https://www.teslarati.com/ford-mustang-mach-e-10-k-doc-fee-misunderstanding/ https://www.teslarati.com/ford-mustang-mach-e-10-k-doc-fee-m...
  - notJim 5y ago
    Oh wow, their marketing pages are very misleading. They list the best stats for each model, but no model exists that has that combo of stats.
chrisseaton 5y ago
I'm worried there's a reason they're so cheap - they don't seem to have good build quality.
- antattack 5y ago
  85 percent of Model 3 owners are "very satisfied" with the ownership experience, the most of all EV owners, in Norway. It's a good stat to go by since that market has the most EVs per capita in the world. https://insideevs.com/news/522710/tesla-owners-satisfaction-survey-norway/ https://insideevs.com/news/522710/tesla-owners-satisfaction-...

nickik 5y ago

> I would never buy a Tesla because I see better options in the EV space Tesla might not be your taste, but every test and comparison shows that Tesla is at the top or at least incredible competitive. > To me that's always been the best way to handle these sorts of things, to introduce competition and win people over. That's exactly what has happened already. > I also don't really fault Toyota for pursuing hydrogen You mean talking about hydrogen while trying to prevent cleaner fuel laws and zero emission vehicles. Yeah you really can't blame gigantic cooperation from lobbying against the environment. Where would we be if cooperation could be criticized like that. > I realize it's not as fully there yet as EVs, but EVs aren't either EV are going totally gang busters and are on a massive growth curve. They are on an incredibly fast adoption curve, as faster then many expected and its going faster. They are there, but it still needs time. > In fact, if the EV market is so healthy, maybe the government should be subsidizing alternatives like hydrogen? Why? Why would you dumb money in a technology stack that has gotten government money for 50 years and has shown absolutely no success what so ever and is worse for the environment by far. What is the logic in that. Seems much more important to replace ICE vehicles then to fight EV with FCV. Wouldn't you say?

notJim 5y ago

If you're in the US, this comment really makes no sense to me, unless you live in or visit rural areas very frequently. Teslas are practical EVs right now for those who can afford them. Most charging happens at home, and there are plenty of superchargers along major highways. Additionally, many cities have level 2 charging, so if you're going to be in a city for even an afternoon you can charge up quite a bit even if there's no supercharging. If it's only an occasional trip where charging is not available, you could rent a car. > I would never buy a Tesla because I see better options in the EV space Tesla has by far the best charging network, so if you ruled them out right away, then I could understand your comment. Electrify America is growing rapidly, and I'm pretty bullish on their network over the next couple of years. > When I think of the people I know, and what's in the parking lot, getting them to migrate to a hybrid is really where there would be any movement. Maybe someday they'll just jump to an EV and skip hybrids but at the moment there's lots of people who won't even consider anything but a full combustion system. I don't really see why. EVs are a bit of a mindset shift (charging at home…), but I don't see the major practical hurdles you do.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]