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No, the problem is domestically, the Japanese government wants Toyota to do fuel cells, not batteries. It's causing no doubt development problems for them to wo
by delfinom 5y ago
No, the problem is domestically, the Japanese government wants Toyota to do fuel cells, not batteries. It's causing no doubt development problems for them to work on both.
- jazzyjackson 5y agoDoes Japan have some advantage with hydrogen I don’t know about? EDIT: thanks, the possibility that they could create a local industry of manufacturing fuel cells instead of relying on foreign-manufactured batteries makes a lot of sense to me.
- paulmd 5y agoJapan generally has the population density to roll out new infrastructure very quickly, so while I have no idea if they have any existing infrastructure in that area, the feeling may be that hydrogen is a "better" solution and they would rather just roll that out instead of the "easier, worse" solution (which also requires an infrastructure roll out to a large degree - just not as much as hydrogen). I'm not saying hydrogen actually is better here, mind you, but if they think so, they may want to just go ahead and do it.
- thehappypm 5y agoIt’s funny because the infrastructure for electric cars is just a supplement to existing grids, vs hydrogen which needs new pipelines/trucks/filling stations.
- paulmd 5y agothat's what I'm saying, Japan is a small enough and dense enough country that rolling out a more complicated set of infrastructure is easier than it would be to do it in a place like the US. So maybe their thought is that electric is a half-measure and the "right" way is hydrogen, and they'll just roll it out and be done with it, because that's what Japan does. The kink in the plan being that the rest of the world is going the other way.
- clomond 5y agoMy understanding is the following. While BEVs are the clear technological winner based on “source to wheels” efficiency - you could make the case that, if looking at Hydrogen vehicles in isolation, that Japan would be one of the best places for it / the most likely place where it could have success. From high density metropolises (less expense for fueling stations than would be required elsewhere), a strong political interest to not use oil anymore (as Japan as to import almost all of their primary energy), to a desire to build out with less dependence on China based minerals and supply chains - building out a domestic supply chain of fuel cells and hydrolyzers is arguably easier than for BEVs (even though, some of the most experienced and respected li-ion cell developers are Japanese). The Japanese car market is also significantly more utilitarian than in other parts of the world (meaning performance matters less). Yes, the Japanese government would be wise to shift course. But from a Japanese national security perspective/energy independence perspective, as well as hypothetical roll out - if there is any place it could work, it would be Japan.
- zoomablemind 5y ago>... a strong political interest to not use oil anymore (as Japan as to import almost all of their primary energy), to a desire to build out with less dependence on China based minerals and supply chains ... Given the Toyota's scale and general scarcity of rare-earth minerals, betting fully on the li-ion tech would be indeed too risky without a viable plan B towards EV. Does the world economy need any more reasons to empower China? Can't see Japan's interest in that, given the recent developments in South China sea and environs. I hope Toyota's engineering efforts will again provide an alternative which would progress beyond the current trend.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 5y agoThey are no rare-earth minerals in Li-Ion batteries! There may be some in electric motors, but 1) hydrogen vehicles need those motors too and 2) it is not required (some EV have zero rare-earth mineral already).
- coolspot 5y ago
- smolder 5y agoI don't think so. Fuel cells do have many advantages. If there are geopolitical reasons for not pursuing full EVs, it could have something to do with natural resources needed for battery production. I got the impression they just made a bet on fuel cells since it is theoretically cleaner/more sustainable than powering everything with lithium ion batteries.
- ip26 5y agoThey supposedly have significant offshore methane hydrate deposits, which can be used to manufacture blue hydrogen.
- cptskippy 5y agoWhat's Japan's motivation for pushing hydrogen fuel cells so hard? It seems like Nissan, Honda and Toyota are all investing big in it.