4 ms·

> On top of that a large fraction of EV electricity is coming from clean sources. I'd need a source on that one.

dn3500 5y ago
Worldwide, about a quarter of our electricity comes from renewables. https://ourworldindata.org/renewable-energy https://ourworldindata.org/renewable-energy
- petre 5y ago
  That's nice, but: "Coal generates nearly 40% of the world's electricity, close to its highest share in decades. And there are now 80 countries using coal power, up from 66 in 2000." https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants
  - Retric 5y ago
    Coal is 36% of global grid electricity production and falling from a peak of 41% in 2013, excluding home PV installations. Current industry projection is 22% of global grid electricity will come from coal in 2040 based on new power plant construction vs existing power plants decommissioned due to age. But even that is pessimistic as EV’s represent new demand so it’s the ratio of new plants being constructed that’s important. All of which is largely irrelevant as average coal power plants powering EV’s still favors EV’s over gasoline powering average ICE’s. At the refinery alone almost 3lb’s of CO2 is produced per gallon of gas, distribution from refineries to gas stations again releases CO2 etc etc.
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/are-electric-vehicles-really-better-for-the-climate-yes-heres-why/ https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/are-electric-vehicles... and https://blog.ucsusa.org/elliott-negin/as-predicted-electric-vehicles-are-getting-cleaner/ https://blog.ucsusa.org/elliott-negin/as-predicted-electric-... > Given where EVs have sold to date, their emissions—based on 2019 power plant emissions data—are equivalent to a gasoline car that gets 93 miles per gallon (mpg), which is dramatically better than even the most efficient gasoline hybrid. Last year, when we conducted the same analysis based on 2018 power plant data, EV emissions were equivalent to an 88-mpg gasoline car, so the “climate pollution gap” between gasoline and electric vehicles is continuing to widen.
nawgz 5y ago
Well, "renewable energy in California" was at 52.7% in 2017, and California's 40mil people seem to own EVs at a world-high per-capita rate from my anecdata, therefore the most dense populous flock of EVs in the world is using ~52.7% renewables as their power source
audunw 5y ago
Norway accounted for half of EVs sold in Europe at one point, and is 100% renewable. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1025497/distribution-of-electricity-production-in-norway-by-source/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1025497/distribution-of-... They’re also popular in the Netherlands, but looks like renewables is a much smaller share there unfortunately (~15% it seems) Should be easy to check countries with highest share of EVs and their electricity sources on Wikipedia But renewables are growing everywhere and these EVs hopefully have a decade or two lifetime ahead of them
- eitland 5y ago
  > Norway accounted for half of EVs sold in Europe at one point, and is 100% renewable. Depends on how one looks at it I think. AFAIK the green-ness of the Norwegian hydro power is sold in the form of "green certificates" to Germans who get to live happy innocent lives. Meanwhile all we Norwegians know that we mostly use hydro power so we don't care about the certificates. Summary: I think the green-ness of Norwegian hydro power is sold twice. Happy to be corrected.
  - petre 5y ago
    Actually the green-ness is produced along with the renewable energy and then sold to non renewable energy producers who then charge the consumers.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      Yes, but since the actual renewable energy is also sold, and that energy certainly is renewable, isn't its greenness also -- first, and arguably "mainly" -- being sold to the buyers of that actual energy? I mean, they're certainly paying for something, and since the energy they're paying for is green, they must be paying for both energy and greenness... Right? So then selling the greenness again, in the form of these weird "certificates", must mean they're selling the greenness twice. When I was young, shit like that used to be called fraud.
Retric 5y ago
Only 63.3% of global electricity came from fossil fuels. That means 36.7% are from ultra low CO2 sources.

Worldwide, about a quarter of our electricity comes from renewables. https://ourworldindata.org/renewable-energy https://ourworldindata.org/renewable-energy

petre 5y ago
That's nice, but: "Coal generates nearly 40% of the world's electricity, close to its highest share in decades. And there are now 80 countries using coal power, up from 66 in 2000." https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants
- Retric 5y ago
  Coal is 36% of global grid electricity production and falling from a peak of 41% in 2013, excluding home PV installations. Current industry projection is 22% of global grid electricity will come from coal in 2040 based on new power plant construction vs existing power plants decommissioned due to age. But even that is pessimistic as EV’s represent new demand so it’s the ratio of new plants being constructed that’s important. All of which is largely irrelevant as average coal power plants powering EV’s still favors EV’s over gasoline powering average ICE’s. At the refinery alone almost 3lb’s of CO2 is produced per gallon of gas, distribution from refineries to gas stations again releases CO2 etc etc.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/are-electric-vehicles-really-better-for-the-climate-yes-heres-why/ https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/are-electric-vehicles... and https://blog.ucsusa.org/elliott-negin/as-predicted-electric-vehicles-are-getting-cleaner/ https://blog.ucsusa.org/elliott-negin/as-predicted-electric-... > Given where EVs have sold to date, their emissions—based on 2019 power plant emissions data—are equivalent to a gasoline car that gets 93 miles per gallon (mpg), which is dramatically better than even the most efficient gasoline hybrid. Last year, when we conducted the same analysis based on 2018 power plant data, EV emissions were equivalent to an 88-mpg gasoline car, so the “climate pollution gap” between gasoline and electric vehicles is continuing to widen.

nawgz 5y ago

Well, "renewable energy in California" was at 52.7% in 2017, and California's 40mil people seem to own EVs at a world-high per-capita rate from my anecdata, therefore the most dense populous flock of EVs in the world is using ~52.7% renewables as their power source

audunw 5y ago

Norway accounted for half of EVs sold in Europe at one point, and is 100% renewable. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1025497/distribution-of-electricity-production-in-norway-by-source/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1025497/distribution-of-... They’re also popular in the Netherlands, but looks like renewables is a much smaller share there unfortunately (~15% it seems) Should be easy to check countries with highest share of EVs and their electricity sources on Wikipedia But renewables are growing everywhere and these EVs hopefully have a decade or two lifetime ahead of them

eitland 5y ago
> Norway accounted for half of EVs sold in Europe at one point, and is 100% renewable. Depends on how one looks at it I think. AFAIK the green-ness of the Norwegian hydro power is sold in the form of "green certificates" to Germans who get to live happy innocent lives. Meanwhile all we Norwegians know that we mostly use hydro power so we don't care about the certificates. Summary: I think the green-ness of Norwegian hydro power is sold twice. Happy to be corrected.
- petre 5y ago
  Actually the green-ness is produced along with the renewable energy and then sold to non renewable energy producers who then charge the consumers.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    Yes, but since the actual renewable energy is also sold, and that energy certainly is renewable, isn't its greenness also -- first, and arguably "mainly" -- being sold to the buyers of that actual energy? I mean, they're certainly paying for something, and since the energy they're paying for is green, they must be paying for both energy and greenness... Right? So then selling the greenness again, in the form of these weird "certificates", must mean they're selling the greenness twice. When I was young, shit like that used to be called fraud.

Retric 5y ago

Only 63.3% of global electricity came from fossil fuels. That means 36.7% are from ultra low CO2 sources.