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I suspect it's even harder than that. Chess GMs have a certain kind of mind, and no amount of training will give you that if you're not born with it. I honestl

I suspect it's even harder than that. Chess GMs have a certain kind of mind, and no amount of training will give you that if you're not born with it. I honestly don't understand the "If you work hard enough you can do anything" mindset. To me it's clearly, obviously, objectively wrong - because otherwise you'd be able to take take absolutely any random child and turn them into a chess prodigy, a musical prodigy, an art prodigy, a literary prodigy, a sports prodigy or a STEM prodigy just by hot housing them. There's no doubt a lot of talent is wasted by circumstance. But does anyone really believe that at the top levels, hard work will compensate for lack of aptitude? Edit: Polgar experiment. Inconclusive without a bigger sample and a control group, surely.

nvilcins 5y ago
I think the problem is that people interpret the "do anything" part as "become #1 at anything" (i.e., "prodigy" as per the parent post). I would say something like "get to the 80th percentile at anything" (or even 95th) would be much more accurate, though, that doesn't sound as catchy. Heck, in many areas you don't even need to work _that_ much or hard to get to the top 20% or so, it's just a matter of a reasonably informed and structured approach, exercised over time.
- lovecg 5y ago
  Obligatory Dan Luu reference on how 95th percentile of anything is not that impressive https://danluu.com/p95-skill/ https://danluu.com/p95-skill/
  - WJW 5y ago
    The article mentions that chess GM level is probably more like 99.9th percentile. At that level you need to be both very talented and practice very hard.
- The_Colonel 5y ago
  > I would say something like "get to the 80th percentile at anything" (or even 95th) would be much more accurate, though, that doesn't sound as catchy. In many areas (sport, art etc.) being in the 80th or even 95th percentile means failure.
automatic6131 5y ago
>I honestly don't understand the "If you work hard enough you can do anything" mindset. I've encountered these people and it's always a case of being insulated from the reality of what the "anything" in question is.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  Working hard to get 90% good at something is very valuable though. That’s how I pay my bills.
fernandopj 5y ago
Polgar set out to turn their children into prodigies, but it could have been any field. They all descibre chess as been what they were introduced and chose to pursue [1], but they were educated in many areas. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Polg%C3%A1r https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Polg%C3%A1r

nvilcins 5y ago

I think the problem is that people interpret the "do anything" part as "become #1 at anything" (i.e., "prodigy" as per the parent post). I would say something like "get to the 80th percentile at anything" (or even 95th) would be much more accurate, though, that doesn't sound as catchy. Heck, in many areas you don't even need to work _that_ much or hard to get to the top 20% or so, it's just a matter of a reasonably informed and structured approach, exercised over time.

lovecg 5y ago
Obligatory Dan Luu reference on how 95th percentile of anything is not that impressive https://danluu.com/p95-skill/ https://danluu.com/p95-skill/
- WJW 5y ago
  The article mentions that chess GM level is probably more like 99.9th percentile. At that level you need to be both very talented and practice very hard.
The_Colonel 5y ago
> I would say something like "get to the 80th percentile at anything" (or even 95th) would be much more accurate, though, that doesn't sound as catchy. In many areas (sport, art etc.) being in the 80th or even 95th percentile means failure.

automatic6131 5y ago

>I honestly don't understand the "If you work hard enough you can do anything" mindset. I've encountered these people and it's always a case of being insulated from the reality of what the "anything" in question is.

systemvoltage 5y ago
Working hard to get 90% good at something is very valuable though. That’s how I pay my bills.

fernandopj 5y ago

Polgar set out to turn their children into prodigies, but it could have been any field. They all descibre chess as been what they were introduced and chose to pursue [1], but they were educated in many areas. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Polg%C3%A1r https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Polg%C3%A1r