4 ms·

"When the facts change, I change my mind - what do you do, sir?" ― John Maynard Keynes

blfr 5y ago
The facts didn't change. Only the narrative did.
datastoat 5y ago
What are the facts that changed, in this lab leak story? As far as I'm aware, our knowledge of the real-world facts haven't changed -- we're still in a position of great uncertainty. All that's changed is how various commentators are dealing with that uncertainty: they had been downplaying it, now they're acknowledging it.
fallingknife 5y ago
In this case what facts changed?
bad_username 5y ago
Changing minds is ok. Shaming and suppressing discussions outside the consensus is not ok.
refurb 5y ago
The facts didn’t change, only who was stating them. If the story was “Trump points to Covid leaking from lab in China, evidence is a sparse” then ok cool. But the story was “Lab leak conspiracy theory has been proven false but Trump continues to claim it’s true increasing Anti-Asian hate crimes” Then Biden starts to comment on it and like a light switch the theory becomes credible, even “likely”. And all the newspapers act like they had been saying that all along.
- fortuna86 5y ago
  I feel the story was your former example, not the latter. If anyone dismissed it as "proven false", they were wrong. But at the time (and now) there still is no evidence for it, which is an important detail when discussing.
- knownjorbist 5y ago
  This is an issue with your perception of the reporting, not what actually happened.
  - refurb 5y ago
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-ends-ban-on-posts-asserting-covid-19-was-man-made-11622094890 https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-ends-ban-on-posts-asse... You’ve got a very short memory. Facebook was banning accounts that even brought it up.
    - fortuna86 5y ago
      Man made virus leaked intentionally =/ nature virus that escaped by accident. The latter is what is being discussed as possible, the former was and still is a deranged conspiracy.
    - knownjorbist 5y ago
      You're actually conflating two different things, in case it wasn't clear.
adolph 5y ago
"These are my principles. If you don’t like them I have others." ― Groucho Marx https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/09/groucho-principles/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/09/groucho-principles/
Cybotron5000 5y ago
…or possibly someone else (Samuelson? Romney/Churchill? Groucho Marx?) https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/07/22/keynes-change-mind/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/07/22/keynes-change-mind/

blfr 5y ago

The facts didn't change. Only the narrative did.

What are the facts that changed, in this lab leak story? As far as I'm aware, our knowledge of the real-world facts haven't changed -- we're still in a position of great uncertainty. All that's changed is how various commentators are dealing with that uncertainty: they had been downplaying it, now they're acknowledging it.

fallingknife 5y ago

In this case what facts changed?

bad_username 5y ago

Changing minds is ok. Shaming and suppressing discussions outside the consensus is not ok.

refurb 5y ago

The facts didn’t change, only who was stating them. If the story was “Trump points to Covid leaking from lab in China, evidence is a sparse” then ok cool. But the story was “Lab leak conspiracy theory has been proven false but Trump continues to claim it’s true increasing Anti-Asian hate crimes” Then Biden starts to comment on it and like a light switch the theory becomes credible, even “likely”. And all the newspapers act like they had been saying that all along.

fortuna86 5y ago
I feel the story was your former example, not the latter. If anyone dismissed it as "proven false", they were wrong. But at the time (and now) there still is no evidence for it, which is an important detail when discussing.
knownjorbist 5y ago
This is an issue with your perception of the reporting, not what actually happened.
- refurb 5y ago
  https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-ends-ban-on-posts-asserting-covid-19-was-man-made-11622094890 https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-ends-ban-on-posts-asse... You’ve got a very short memory. Facebook was banning accounts that even brought it up.
  - fortuna86 5y ago
    Man made virus leaked intentionally =/ nature virus that escaped by accident. The latter is what is being discussed as possible, the former was and still is a deranged conspiracy.
  - knownjorbist 5y ago
    You're actually conflating two different things, in case it wasn't clear.

adolph 5y ago

"These are my principles. If you don’t like them I have others." ― Groucho Marx https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/09/groucho-principles/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/09/groucho-principles/

Cybotron5000 5y ago

…or possibly someone else (Samuelson? Romney/Churchill? Groucho Marx?) https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/07/22/keynes-change-mind/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/07/22/keynes-change-mind/