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The Tesla story had two sides - Tesla was aware about the high standards that would be applied to their factory, but somehow thought "we're Tesla so they'll cre

The Tesla story had two sides - Tesla was aware about the high standards that would be applied to their factory, but somehow thought "we're Tesla so they'll create all kinds of exceptions for us if we pay the right politicians". Turns out not every country is as corrupt as Tesla's home country.

corty 5y ago
Maybe. But I think all the politicians Tesla could have bought are already owned by their German competitors.
- detaro 5y ago
  There aren't any competitors in the state, and there has been basically no politically influential pushback, so that line of argument doesn't really make sense.
  - corty 5y ago
    There is no overt pushback. That doesn't mean that there is none. And the presence and activity of the usual environmental NIMBY organisations like Deutsche Umwelthilfe, NABU, BUND, etc. point to at least some covert opposition, since those organisations happily serve as fronts for non-environmental interests. And state politics, especially in the east, is rife with people using it as a stepping stone to the federal level. Famously there once were more prime ministers from the west governing the east than eastern-born ones.
    - detaro 5y ago
      Anything that's not just wild speculation of what people could be doing, although to no apparent effect?
      - corty 5y ago
        Since it is about corruption, of course there is only wild speculation. Maybe in 20 years someone will confess in their posthumous memoirs or something. Until then, there is only speculation, inference and the recognition of parallels to cases in the past.
        rsynnott 5y ago
        I mean, if the options are (a) a grand corrupt conspiracy or (b) Tesla turns out to be bad at doing a thing, I think Occam's razor would suggest (b), especially given that it's _Tesla_. This would not be their first rodeo with screwing things up.
    - iSnow 5y ago
      Wait, got any source to back up the claim that those environmental organizations are corrupt fronts for business interests?
- wasmitnetzen 5y ago
  I don't think there is any other car factory in Brandenburg. So there would only be interference from the federal level down. Which wouldn't matter that much in my opinion.
- carlos22 5y ago
  Oh thats so not true. The Brandenburg (the state) Ministerpräsident (like Gouverneur) and his team really like to be a big car producing Bundesland. We have Baden-Württemberg (Mercedes, Porsche), Bayern (BMW, Audi) and Niedersachen (VW HQ) and to some extend also NRW (biggest EU plant of Ford) and Sachsen (VW plant). But there is not a single plant Brandenburg. So to be in the game is something they really wanna happen. Especially with something that hyped like tesla. But still there are rules, and you have to follow them.
  - nicbou 5y ago
    Yes, and I remember that the people watched the project with a skeptic eye. It was neither pessimistic nor optimistic, just cautious. It's just an impression though.
- suction 5y ago
  They don't have to buy politicians, because every politician knows that Germany's economic fate is directly tied to them. Which isn't the case for Tesla and never will be. German auto manufacturers long know that the real competition for E-mobility isn't Tesla.
- suction 5y ago
  You could be right. It's Tesla, so the thinking was probably more along the lines of "Germany will do whatever we want because we're Tesla."
CamperBob2 5y ago
Lofty talk from the home of VW AG.
- _Microft 5y ago
  Tesla's plant is in the federate state of Brandenburg, VW is based in Lower Saxony.
- suction 5y ago
  VW AG isn't based in Brandenburg.
nickik 5y ago
> we're Tesla so they'll create all kinds of exceptions for us if we pay the right politicians Based on what? Tesla makes extensive use of an existing capability to move on development with per-approval. They have not received any kind of politicians helping them to avoid bureaucracy that I know of. Some local politicians have talked in support but the bureaucracy is just moving at its normal pace. I guess they paid a fine for installing a few tanks to early but that seems like a planning issue, not some kind of 'we gone install the 2 tanks because we have political backing'. Its not like the plant is majorly behind. > Turns out not every country is as corrupt as Tesla's home country. Again, based on what? What corrupt thing did Tesla do in Texas that is so different? Texas doesn't require a public meeting for input but the overall process is not actually that different. Maybe the standards are different, but it doesn't have anything to do with corruption.

corty 5y ago

Maybe. But I think all the politicians Tesla could have bought are already owned by their German competitors.

detaro 5y ago
There aren't any competitors in the state, and there has been basically no politically influential pushback, so that line of argument doesn't really make sense.
- corty 5y ago
  There is no overt pushback. That doesn't mean that there is none. And the presence and activity of the usual environmental NIMBY organisations like Deutsche Umwelthilfe, NABU, BUND, etc. point to at least some covert opposition, since those organisations happily serve as fronts for non-environmental interests. And state politics, especially in the east, is rife with people using it as a stepping stone to the federal level. Famously there once were more prime ministers from the west governing the east than eastern-born ones.
  - detaro 5y ago
    Anything that's not just wild speculation of what people could be doing, although to no apparent effect?
    - corty 5y ago
      Since it is about corruption, of course there is only wild speculation. Maybe in 20 years someone will confess in their posthumous memoirs or something. Until then, there is only speculation, inference and the recognition of parallels to cases in the past.
      - rsynnott 5y ago
        I mean, if the options are (a) a grand corrupt conspiracy or (b) Tesla turns out to be bad at doing a thing, I think Occam's razor would suggest (b), especially given that it's _Tesla_. This would not be their first rodeo with screwing things up.
  - iSnow 5y ago
    Wait, got any source to back up the claim that those environmental organizations are corrupt fronts for business interests?
wasmitnetzen 5y ago
I don't think there is any other car factory in Brandenburg. So there would only be interference from the federal level down. Which wouldn't matter that much in my opinion.
carlos22 5y ago
Oh thats so not true. The Brandenburg (the state) Ministerpräsident (like Gouverneur) and his team really like to be a big car producing Bundesland. We have Baden-Württemberg (Mercedes, Porsche), Bayern (BMW, Audi) and Niedersachen (VW HQ) and to some extend also NRW (biggest EU plant of Ford) and Sachsen (VW plant). But there is not a single plant Brandenburg. So to be in the game is something they really wanna happen. Especially with something that hyped like tesla. But still there are rules, and you have to follow them.
- nicbou 5y ago
  Yes, and I remember that the people watched the project with a skeptic eye. It was neither pessimistic nor optimistic, just cautious. It's just an impression though.
suction 5y ago
They don't have to buy politicians, because every politician knows that Germany's economic fate is directly tied to them. Which isn't the case for Tesla and never will be. German auto manufacturers long know that the real competition for E-mobility isn't Tesla.
suction 5y ago
You could be right. It's Tesla, so the thinking was probably more along the lines of "Germany will do whatever we want because we're Tesla."

CamperBob2 5y ago

Lofty talk from the home of VW AG.

_Microft 5y ago
Tesla's plant is in the federate state of Brandenburg, VW is based in Lower Saxony.
suction 5y ago
VW AG isn't based in Brandenburg.

nickik 5y ago

> we're Tesla so they'll create all kinds of exceptions for us if we pay the right politicians Based on what? Tesla makes extensive use of an existing capability to move on development with per-approval. They have not received any kind of politicians helping them to avoid bureaucracy that I know of. Some local politicians have talked in support but the bureaucracy is just moving at its normal pace. I guess they paid a fine for installing a few tanks to early but that seems like a planning issue, not some kind of 'we gone install the 2 tanks because we have political backing'. Its not like the plant is majorly behind. > Turns out not every country is as corrupt as Tesla's home country. Again, based on what? What corrupt thing did Tesla do in Texas that is so different? Texas doesn't require a public meeting for input but the overall process is not actually that different. Maybe the standards are different, but it doesn't have anything to do with corruption.