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> Maybe in Eastern Europe or something but most of Western Europe has no such problem, especially in the North. I'm in Norway. It's absolutely a car society, a

by varjag 5y ago

> Maybe in Eastern Europe or something but most of Western Europe has no such problem, especially in the North. I'm in Norway. It's absolutely a car society, and unless you live in a dense population center living carless is unfeasible.

skinkestek 5y ago
Agree. I also live in Norway and have done for years. I can get - to work (bike or bus + train + 1km walk), - to the shop (walk or bike), - to many of my friends (walk or bike), - to the town center (bus or bike) quite comfortably alone, and I think at least except winter most (by number) of my trips is car free. But good look getting 5 kids somewhere where there isn't a bus line (soccer, ice hockey, activities, church, in-laws house, frinds across town, fishing).
- varjag 5y ago
  I live in 2nd largest city, and 11 km drive from work. If I want to take public transport, I first have to take a bus going once per hour, switch to another bus going into opposite direction, and then take a third bus to work. Bus can be a bit late so am not making the connection, or sometimes a connecting bus not showing up. Then you stand another 20 minutes in the rain (it usually rains here) on the shoulder of a motorway. I could also cycle in theory; however my home is 88 meters over sea level and my work in 100+ on another hill. Did I also mention it rains a lot? Some people like the challenge and do it anyway (but virtually none does that every day). I can't be arsed to sweat out on my way to the office though. And yes that's before you get to having kids. Or living outside a city: then you have a bus on one route going maybe 2-4 times a day.
  - masklinn 5y ago
    > I could also cycle in theory; however my home is 88 meters over sea level and my work in 100+ on another hill. Did I also mention it rains a lot? Some people like the challenge and do it anyway (but virtually none does that every day). I can't be arsed to sweat out on my way to the office though. TBF electric bicycles help a lot with the latter, and the usual “there’s no bad weather only bad clothing” norwegian saying definitely applies. But that’s assuming the infrastructure matches, cycling in the rain when well-equipped is one thing, cycling in the rain dodging cars and getting sprayed is quite an other.
    - varjag 5y ago
      The infrastructure is decent, only the last mile stretch (uphill of course) is shared with car traffic. Still it's not a relaxing ride, and would probably double my commute time even with an e-bike. As I mentioned there are people doing that anyway, but even the hardcore cyclist types are doing it only a few days in a month.
  - skinkestek 5y ago
    I lived there too and I can vaguely remember getting from Fyllingsdalen to Sotra at night by bus while bringing my mopping gear :-\
mft_ 5y ago
Same for Germany and the UK, in my experience. Within or very close to major cities, it’s feasible albeit often slow and frustrating. A bit further out, cars are close to vital, unless you specifically optimise for public transport when choosing your home and work locations, and accept major restrictions around social and hobby activities.
- thefr0g 5y ago
  I live in germany and even in "structually weak" eastern regions you can get by ok without a car unless you live in a very tiny village or are physically impaired. Public transport could be way cheaper though. Imo many people in germany have still to realize that it's not feasible to make big bucks in the city while hiding from the fruits of their labour in the countryside.

by varjag 5y ago

skinkestek 5y ago

Agree. I also live in Norway and have done for years. I can get - to work (bike or bus + train + 1km walk), - to the shop (walk or bike), - to many of my friends (walk or bike), - to the town center (bus or bike) quite comfortably alone, and I think at least except winter most (by number) of my trips is car free. But good look getting 5 kids somewhere where there isn't a bus line (soccer, ice hockey, activities, church, in-laws house, frinds across town, fishing).

varjag 5y ago
I live in 2nd largest city, and 11 km drive from work. If I want to take public transport, I first have to take a bus going once per hour, switch to another bus going into opposite direction, and then take a third bus to work. Bus can be a bit late so am not making the connection, or sometimes a connecting bus not showing up. Then you stand another 20 minutes in the rain (it usually rains here) on the shoulder of a motorway. I could also cycle in theory; however my home is 88 meters over sea level and my work in 100+ on another hill. Did I also mention it rains a lot? Some people like the challenge and do it anyway (but virtually none does that every day). I can't be arsed to sweat out on my way to the office though. And yes that's before you get to having kids. Or living outside a city: then you have a bus on one route going maybe 2-4 times a day.
- masklinn 5y ago
  > I could also cycle in theory; however my home is 88 meters over sea level and my work in 100+ on another hill. Did I also mention it rains a lot? Some people like the challenge and do it anyway (but virtually none does that every day). I can't be arsed to sweat out on my way to the office though. TBF electric bicycles help a lot with the latter, and the usual “there’s no bad weather only bad clothing” norwegian saying definitely applies. But that’s assuming the infrastructure matches, cycling in the rain when well-equipped is one thing, cycling in the rain dodging cars and getting sprayed is quite an other.
  - varjag 5y ago
    The infrastructure is decent, only the last mile stretch (uphill of course) is shared with car traffic. Still it's not a relaxing ride, and would probably double my commute time even with an e-bike. As I mentioned there are people doing that anyway, but even the hardcore cyclist types are doing it only a few days in a month.
- skinkestek 5y ago
  I lived there too and I can vaguely remember getting from Fyllingsdalen to Sotra at night by bus while bringing my mopping gear :-\

mft_ 5y ago

Same for Germany and the UK, in my experience. Within or very close to major cities, it’s feasible albeit often slow and frustrating. A bit further out, cars are close to vital, unless you specifically optimise for public transport when choosing your home and work locations, and accept major restrictions around social and hobby activities.

thefr0g 5y ago
I live in germany and even in "structually weak" eastern regions you can get by ok without a car unless you live in a very tiny village or are physically impaired. Public transport could be way cheaper though. Imo many people in germany have still to realize that it's not feasible to make big bucks in the city while hiding from the fruits of their labour in the countryside.