5 ms·

Why do I care? I grew up in Portugal with asthma at a time when indoor smoking was allowed and prevalent. The progress in the past few decades has been amazing

Why do I care? I grew up in Portugal with asthma at a time when indoor smoking was allowed and prevalent. The progress in the past few decades has been amazing for my quality of life and that of all other people (specially children with smoking parents) who were regularly subjected to 2nd hand smoke from a young age through no fault of their own. EDIT: also it’s unclear to me how you got the message that I was “trying to control other people’s behavior” from my first comment

noduerme 5y ago
I'm fine with bars banning smoking based on the owner's preference, but I think there is value in having places where people can congregate to smoke and drink, and I don't believe some people who don't like it have the right to ban other people from doing it everywhere. This is also in response to the other post above who said it had negative social and economic impacts. We pay extremely high taxes on tobacco to more than cover those costs. I personally don't smoke around children. But nothing is enough for some crusaders who want to prevent me from enjoying tobacco. It's the same impulse as people who want to ban alcohol or marijuana. Adults should have the right to do as they please so long as it isn't hurting others, and no, smelling diffused secondhand smoke outdoors is not giving you cancer any more than the exhaust from the cars or the fallout from Fukushima.
- wizzwizz4 5y ago
  > smelling diffused secondhand smoke outdoors is not giving you cancer any more than the exhaust from the cars Bad analogy (or, rather, reasonable analogy, but it's not making the point you're trying to make). And smoking's a bigger concern for asthmatics; have you taken that into account? > and I don't believe some people who don't like it have the right to ban other people from doing it everywhere If you can smoke without polluting everybody's air, then sure, go ahead. Otherwise, please don't.
  - noduerme 5y ago
    Can you fart without polluting everybody's air? If so I'm sure I can light a cigarette. But to paraphrase Kansas... everyone's a fart in the wind
    - wizzwizz4 5y ago
      > Can you fart without polluting everybody's air? Nope, but I adjust my diet to minimise the impact of my farting, and it pollutes the air much less. Plus, my farts aren't responsible for respiratory illnesses.
- Nursie 5y ago
  > Adults should have the right to do as they please so long as it isn't hurting others Business owners don't get to decide that for their staff, is why it's banned in businesses too. You don't pay taxes to cover the health effects you have on other people.
  - noduerme 5y ago
    So make the staff sign a contract and give them hazard pay. It's no worse than working in a popcorn factory.
    - Nursie 5y ago
      Making people who need work sign a contract which might result in them getting cancer is not something that society has generally deemed ethical. FYI - the harmful stuff in popcorn has been identified and removed too, because we don't let popcorn workers sign up to die either.
      - noduerme 5y ago
        Not every workplace has to be made ideal for every person seeking a job. Just because you might not want to work at a deep fryer doesn't mean we should ban fried food. If you're a vegan, don't work at a steakhouse. If you're opposed to sex, you don't have to work in the sex industry, but that's no reason why we should ban it or drive sex workers into the underground economy. The same is true for places where people want to smoke. Also - it's only unethical if you don't know what you're signing up for. The whole point of disclosure and hazard pay is to let adults choose whether to do something dangerous. Humans can decide if they want to do something or not. This whole idea that no one has a choice and everyone is a victim of circumstances is ridiculous (not to mention lazy, whiny, and ultimately futile).
        Nursie 5y ago
        > Just because you might not want to work at a deep fryer doesn't mean we should ban fried food. AFAIK deep fryers don't give you cancer just by working around them. > This whole idea that no one has a choice People on low incomes with families to feed don't. Hope that helps you have some empathy. We, as a society, have chosen their health over your smoking.
- addicted 5y ago
  > value in having places where people can congregate to smoke and drink Call them home. Why do you think other people should be subject to the dangerous conditions you're imposing on them? Not just patrons but also workers.
  - noduerme 5y ago
    I worked for a couple years in a coffeehouse that allowed illegal smoking after 9pm. I smoked. The owner smoked. Cops came in on their midnight break and smoked. You wouldn't have gone there, let alone worked there, if you didn't smoke. So tell me, why should that be illegal? So you can go there and everyone else has to go home? Once the city cracked down on it, a few mothers with babies showed up for awhile to show that they really had always wanted to go there. Then it was empty and it went out of business. So why can't you stand the idea of a place existing where you wouldn't want to go, but other people might want to go? I don't go to orgies or to burning man, but I don't feel the need to shut them down.

noduerme 5y ago

I'm fine with bars banning smoking based on the owner's preference, but I think there is value in having places where people can congregate to smoke and drink, and I don't believe some people who don't like it have the right to ban other people from doing it everywhere. This is also in response to the other post above who said it had negative social and economic impacts. We pay extremely high taxes on tobacco to more than cover those costs. I personally don't smoke around children. But nothing is enough for some crusaders who want to prevent me from enjoying tobacco. It's the same impulse as people who want to ban alcohol or marijuana. Adults should have the right to do as they please so long as it isn't hurting others, and no, smelling diffused secondhand smoke outdoors is not giving you cancer any more than the exhaust from the cars or the fallout from Fukushima.

wizzwizz4 5y ago
> smelling diffused secondhand smoke outdoors is not giving you cancer any more than the exhaust from the cars Bad analogy (or, rather, reasonable analogy, but it's not making the point you're trying to make). And smoking's a bigger concern for asthmatics; have you taken that into account? > and I don't believe some people who don't like it have the right to ban other people from doing it everywhere If you can smoke without polluting everybody's air, then sure, go ahead. Otherwise, please don't.
- noduerme 5y ago
  Can you fart without polluting everybody's air? If so I'm sure I can light a cigarette. But to paraphrase Kansas... everyone's a fart in the wind
  - wizzwizz4 5y ago
    > Can you fart without polluting everybody's air? Nope, but I adjust my diet to minimise the impact of my farting, and it pollutes the air much less. Plus, my farts aren't responsible for respiratory illnesses.
Nursie 5y ago
> Adults should have the right to do as they please so long as it isn't hurting others Business owners don't get to decide that for their staff, is why it's banned in businesses too. You don't pay taxes to cover the health effects you have on other people.
- noduerme 5y ago
  So make the staff sign a contract and give them hazard pay. It's no worse than working in a popcorn factory.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    Making people who need work sign a contract which might result in them getting cancer is not something that society has generally deemed ethical. FYI - the harmful stuff in popcorn has been identified and removed too, because we don't let popcorn workers sign up to die either.
    - noduerme 5y ago
      Not every workplace has to be made ideal for every person seeking a job. Just because you might not want to work at a deep fryer doesn't mean we should ban fried food. If you're a vegan, don't work at a steakhouse. If you're opposed to sex, you don't have to work in the sex industry, but that's no reason why we should ban it or drive sex workers into the underground economy. The same is true for places where people want to smoke. Also - it's only unethical if you don't know what you're signing up for. The whole point of disclosure and hazard pay is to let adults choose whether to do something dangerous. Humans can decide if they want to do something or not. This whole idea that no one has a choice and everyone is a victim of circumstances is ridiculous (not to mention lazy, whiny, and ultimately futile).
      - Nursie 5y ago
        > Just because you might not want to work at a deep fryer doesn't mean we should ban fried food. AFAIK deep fryers don't give you cancer just by working around them. > This whole idea that no one has a choice People on low incomes with families to feed don't. Hope that helps you have some empathy. We, as a society, have chosen their health over your smoking.
addicted 5y ago
> value in having places where people can congregate to smoke and drink Call them home. Why do you think other people should be subject to the dangerous conditions you're imposing on them? Not just patrons but also workers.
- noduerme 5y ago
  I worked for a couple years in a coffeehouse that allowed illegal smoking after 9pm. I smoked. The owner smoked. Cops came in on their midnight break and smoked. You wouldn't have gone there, let alone worked there, if you didn't smoke. So tell me, why should that be illegal? So you can go there and everyone else has to go home? Once the city cracked down on it, a few mothers with babies showed up for awhile to show that they really had always wanted to go there. Then it was empty and it went out of business. So why can't you stand the idea of a place existing where you wouldn't want to go, but other people might want to go? I don't go to orgies or to burning man, but I don't feel the need to shut them down.