4 ms·

Even within English there are different accents. I'm British. If I meet an American "Annie" then do I put on a faux American accent while saying her name? Or do

by rlpb 5y ago

Even within English there are different accents. I'm British. If I meet an American "Annie" then do I put on a faux American accent while saying her name? Or do I just say "Annie" with a British accent? If it's allowed or even expected that I shift "Annie" into my accent, why not a non-English name? What about European names that have English equivalents but are pronounced differently in European languages? My own name is foreign. Native English speakers cannot pronounce one of the vowels in it, and if they try, they end up using what is to me a different vowel entirely (imagine someone saying "Dive" instead of "Dave"). I gave up when I was about six, and am quite happy for people to use a common, roughly similar English name for me instead. In fact I prefer it, since then I don't have to hear it being mangled constantly.

neltnerb 5y ago
I personally think it's entirely fine to switch between accents to try to match the locals, but I get the argument that it's offensive. I think it's unfortunate that this is the perception because I really really really really like phonetics. I'm a singer, this is our bread and butter. It's frustrating that doing my best to sing with an Australian accent is surely entirely unacceptable in 2021, even if it's an Australian composer and the rhyming scheme makes no sense in an American accent. At least for some reason it's perfectly fine to use a British accent at all times, even if it's a horrible accent. We almost always sing with a "British accent" by default because of particular ways it improves the understandability of the words when sung. We tend to only use an "American accent" (and even then, which one right?) when singing Gospel music. The rules are a little strange and clearly asymmetric in the sense that adopting accents that have historically been over-emphasized or glorified or straight up were the accents of conquering empires is fine while the reverse is not. This is a reasonable guideline, but I admit it feels hollow as someone who simply wants to sing as best I can.
- jan_Inkepa 5y ago
  Good points. Yeah; it's possibly ironic that a lot of efforts/values in this direction have a strong indirect effect of enforcing the status quo and the cultural norms of the prevailing power. ("It's always ok to wear jeans" is my shorthand). I remember being surprised at Hugh Laurie's blues recordings. He's the person I can think of off-hand that went all-out on accent while singing with his mother tongue. OTOH if you go all out and sing in another language it's regarded as ok try to try render things more exactly (But most people make lots of mistakes that native speakers pick up on and so the audience may not enjoy the aesthetic outcome. It's super hard!)
  - jan_Inkepa 5y ago
    OTOOH I just recalled the singer John Linnell settling for singing in Latin because of (interpolating his words a little) not wanting to sing badly in a living language ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7MJ71RPGhU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7MJ71RPGhU ). "I’m deeply jealous of people who are fluent in a second language and can apply that skill to their creative work in a way that doesn’t seem like cultural appropriation of the most offensive and embarrassing kind" ( https://www.openculture.com/2021/07/they-might-be-giants-john-linnell-releases-an-ep-of-songs-in-latin.html https://www.openculture.com/2021/07/they-might-be-giants-joh... )
elros 5y ago
> (imagine someone saying "Dive" instead of "Dave") So, an Australian? :D
alistairSH 5y ago
I'm Scottish-American immigrant. Pronunciation is a funny thing. Marry (tie the knot), Mary (the person), and Merry (happy at Christmas). My parents and I pronounce them differently (mah-ry, mai-ry, meh-ry). My younger sister, who lacks any Scottish accent, pronounces them the same. Same with the woman's name Carrie/Kerrie - same in the US, but subtly different in Scotland. Then there's the "wh" sound. More of a "hwh" sound vs the American plain-old "w". Lots of teasing from friends when I say white or wheels or which. This all used to cause good-natured fun for my mom and her peers, as she was an ESOL teacher. For the most part, I'm just happy if people get my name mostly correct. Alistair shouldn't be that hard, but apparently it is.
- jnwatson 5y ago
  In parts of the American South, “wh” is still pronounced, though it is fading. The South had a large influx of Scottish immigration 200-300 years ago and it still shows.

by rlpb 5y ago

neltnerb 5y ago

I personally think it's entirely fine to switch between accents to try to match the locals, but I get the argument that it's offensive. I think it's unfortunate that this is the perception because I really really really really like phonetics. I'm a singer, this is our bread and butter. It's frustrating that doing my best to sing with an Australian accent is surely entirely unacceptable in 2021, even if it's an Australian composer and the rhyming scheme makes no sense in an American accent. At least for some reason it's perfectly fine to use a British accent at all times, even if it's a horrible accent. We almost always sing with a "British accent" by default because of particular ways it improves the understandability of the words when sung. We tend to only use an "American accent" (and even then, which one right?) when singing Gospel music. The rules are a little strange and clearly asymmetric in the sense that adopting accents that have historically been over-emphasized or glorified or straight up were the accents of conquering empires is fine while the reverse is not. This is a reasonable guideline, but I admit it feels hollow as someone who simply wants to sing as best I can.

jan_Inkepa 5y ago
Good points. Yeah; it's possibly ironic that a lot of efforts/values in this direction have a strong indirect effect of enforcing the status quo and the cultural norms of the prevailing power. ("It's always ok to wear jeans" is my shorthand). I remember being surprised at Hugh Laurie's blues recordings. He's the person I can think of off-hand that went all-out on accent while singing with his mother tongue. OTOH if you go all out and sing in another language it's regarded as ok try to try render things more exactly (But most people make lots of mistakes that native speakers pick up on and so the audience may not enjoy the aesthetic outcome. It's super hard!)
- jan_Inkepa 5y ago
  OTOOH I just recalled the singer John Linnell settling for singing in Latin because of (interpolating his words a little) not wanting to sing badly in a living language ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7MJ71RPGhU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7MJ71RPGhU ). "I’m deeply jealous of people who are fluent in a second language and can apply that skill to their creative work in a way that doesn’t seem like cultural appropriation of the most offensive and embarrassing kind" ( https://www.openculture.com/2021/07/they-might-be-giants-john-linnell-releases-an-ep-of-songs-in-latin.html https://www.openculture.com/2021/07/they-might-be-giants-joh... )

elros 5y ago

> (imagine someone saying "Dive" instead of "Dave") So, an Australian? :D

alistairSH 5y ago

I'm Scottish-American immigrant. Pronunciation is a funny thing. Marry (tie the knot), Mary (the person), and Merry (happy at Christmas). My parents and I pronounce them differently (mah-ry, mai-ry, meh-ry). My younger sister, who lacks any Scottish accent, pronounces them the same. Same with the woman's name Carrie/Kerrie - same in the US, but subtly different in Scotland. Then there's the "wh" sound. More of a "hwh" sound vs the American plain-old "w". Lots of teasing from friends when I say white or wheels or which. This all used to cause good-natured fun for my mom and her peers, as she was an ESOL teacher. For the most part, I'm just happy if people get my name mostly correct. Alistair shouldn't be that hard, but apparently it is.

jnwatson 5y ago
In parts of the American South, “wh” is still pronounced, though it is fading. The South had a large influx of Scottish immigration 200-300 years ago and it still shows.