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Pinyin is predictable if you memorize every single syllable that exists, it is not logical on a letter-by-letter basis. For example, "liu" should be pronounced

Pinyin is predictable if you memorize every single syllable that exists, it is not logical on a letter-by-letter basis. For example, "liu" should be pronounced "liou" and "shui" should be pronounced "shuei", but the "o" and "e" are omitted in Pinyin for brevity. Similarly, the "u" in lu and mu is different from the "u" in "ju" and "qu"; the latter is actually "jü" and "qü" as in "nü" and "lü", again the diareses are omitted purely for the convenience of the writer. The "a" in "yan" and "ya"/"yang" is completely different, etc. I like Pinyin as a reasonably concise input method, but it's not great for romanizing names.

kragen 5y ago
Probably you speak more Chinese than I do, but as I understand it, you don't have to memorize the syllables, just the 22 (?) onsets and 17 (?) vowel+codas, same as in bopomofo, just more sneakily. Plus nü and lü, I guess. But that still means memorizing 41 pronunciations instead of the 374 you suggest. Is that right, or is the situation far more complicated than it appears?
- gurkendoktor 5y ago
  I've never learned bopomofo in earnest, and for pinyin I just memorized everything that felt like an exception to me, even though it might have some internal logic. For example, I guess that the "a" in "yan" is different from "lan" because "yan" is its own coda, whereas "lan" is "l" + "an"?
  - kragen 5y ago
    Hmm, I don't know.
iflp 5y ago
> liu" should be pronounced "liou" and "shui" should be pronounced "shuei" This is nuanced: in some cases it’s omission for brevity [1] and in other cases it’s how the phonemes sound 100 years ago [2]. And if you pronounce them fast enough there isn’t much difference. The omitted diaeresis is certainly for brevity, although using v is more common to me. [1]: https://www.zhihu.com/question/26010099 https://www.zhihu.com/question/26010099 [2]: https://www.zhihu.com/question/313646560 https://www.zhihu.com/question/313646560

kragen 5y ago

Probably you speak more Chinese than I do, but as I understand it, you don't have to memorize the syllables, just the 22 (?) onsets and 17 (?) vowel+codas, same as in bopomofo, just more sneakily. Plus nü and lü, I guess. But that still means memorizing 41 pronunciations instead of the 374 you suggest. Is that right, or is the situation far more complicated than it appears?

gurkendoktor 5y ago
I've never learned bopomofo in earnest, and for pinyin I just memorized everything that felt like an exception to me, even though it might have some internal logic. For example, I guess that the "a" in "yan" is different from "lan" because "yan" is its own coda, whereas "lan" is "l" + "an"?
- kragen 5y ago
  Hmm, I don't know.

iflp 5y ago

> liu" should be pronounced "liou" and "shui" should be pronounced "shuei" This is nuanced: in some cases it’s omission for brevity [1] and in other cases it’s how the phonemes sound 100 years ago [2]. And if you pronounce them fast enough there isn’t much difference. The omitted diaeresis is certainly for brevity, although using v is more common to me. [1]: https://www.zhihu.com/question/26010099 https://www.zhihu.com/question/26010099 [2]: https://www.zhihu.com/question/313646560 https://www.zhihu.com/question/313646560