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It might not be that California has an unfair advantage, but that southern states have an unfair disadvantage. If southern states spike their watt hours due to

It might not be that California has an unfair advantage, but that southern states have an unfair disadvantage. If southern states spike their watt hours due to aircon, we could say the cause is poor construction/architecture. The poorer the insulation (southern homes' insulation is crap compared to northern) the more you need to pump the aircon. And when homes are not designed for optimal environmental efficiency or passive temp regulation, you can't cool the home well except with more aircon. (All this also assumes that aircon is some sort of human right. We could learn how to deal with heat without power, the way we had to for the past 300,000 years)

ineedasername 5y ago
I completely, fully, and totally agree. Although that's also why, in terms of energy efficiency progress, I'd like to see those factors take out and compare where they stand on consumption that is less tied to climate and construction quality. That's not so say they should be discounted, only that each segment of energy consumption should be compared like to like.
chrisco255 5y ago
Our ancestors didn't really need air conditioning in the ice age.
josephcsible 5y ago
We dealt with disease without modern knowledge of medicine or hygiene for the past 300,000 years too. The fact that lacking something didn't make the human race go extinct doesn't mean it's something we should just give up.
- blooalien 5y ago
  Ummm… Humans "dealt with disease" before "modern medicine" frequently by dying.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    Yes, that's my point. Technology can save a lot of lives, even though living without it didn't kill enough humans to drive us to extinction.
    - ineedasername 5y ago
      Yes, the argument from "But this is how natural humans used to live!" Has spawned any number of misaprehemsions, not to mention a few fad diets. By all means, embrace food as eaten by out ancestors, if that's what someone really wants, but they should understand that such diets resulted in malnutrition and stunted growth, and we're "embraced" by our ancestors living on the brink of starvation & lack of choice.
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    frequently by dying In the long term, humans deal with everything by dying. It's rather inefficient and denotes a tendency to run away from any problem that can't be solved within the ~55 years of an educated human period of productivity. Maybe with a little more grit and resolve to avoid such cowardly tactics as death we would undertake longer term projects. But as long as humans insist on dying, that is going to be a nearly impossible challenge. It is hard to get a person motivated to take on a high-stakes challenge when they plan on dying before the consequences of inaction impact them. I propose that all humans make the sensible choice to not die, at least for a century or so longer than their current predilections in this area, to demonstrate their commitment to truly advancing the cause of human kind.
- throwaway984393 5y ago
  And it doesn't mean we have to keep it, either. It helps to research the particular scenario and find out whether there's a better path than the one we default into.
thaumasiotes 5y ago
> (All this also assumes that aircon is some sort of human right. We could learn how to deal with heat without power, the way we had to for the past 300,000 years) Well, sure, except that the way we dealt with the climate of the American South before air conditioning was by not living there. That is a major reason the South, and not the North, had so many slaves.
tdeck 5y ago
Heating is much more energy intensive than cooling (unless you have a heat pump, aren't particularly common in the U.S). Air conditioning consumes a lot of electrical power in comparison to heating, but if we're counting overall energy efficiency it seems like darker, colder northern climates should have a disadvantage.
- Sylamore 5y ago
  heat pumps aren't common in the US?
  - tdeck 5y ago
    Not for heating, most people heat their homes by burning natural gas or oil. Obviously an AC unit is heat pump but most aren't bidirectional.
  - Rebelgecko 5y ago
    I think it varies a lot regionally
- BenjiWiebe 5y ago
  In some areas, heating is cheaper with propane or wood then with electricity. Air conditioning, however, needs electricity. We heat with wood and propane but air condition with electricity. Our electricity bill is much higher in the summer.
jfrunyon 5y ago
> The poorer the insulation (southern homes' insulation is crap compared to northern) the more you need to pump the aircon. Insulation can only do so much when the outdoor temperature doesn't drop below 80F for weeks at a time.
- throwaway984393 5y ago
  It doesn't matter how hot it is or for how long, it does its job regardless.

ineedasername 5y ago

I completely, fully, and totally agree. Although that's also why, in terms of energy efficiency progress, I'd like to see those factors take out and compare where they stand on consumption that is less tied to climate and construction quality. That's not so say they should be discounted, only that each segment of energy consumption should be compared like to like.

chrisco255 5y ago

Our ancestors didn't really need air conditioning in the ice age.

josephcsible 5y ago

We dealt with disease without modern knowledge of medicine or hygiene for the past 300,000 years too. The fact that lacking something didn't make the human race go extinct doesn't mean it's something we should just give up.

blooalien 5y ago
Ummm… Humans "dealt with disease" before "modern medicine" frequently by dying.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  Yes, that's my point. Technology can save a lot of lives, even though living without it didn't kill enough humans to drive us to extinction.
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    Yes, the argument from "But this is how natural humans used to live!" Has spawned any number of misaprehemsions, not to mention a few fad diets. By all means, embrace food as eaten by out ancestors, if that's what someone really wants, but they should understand that such diets resulted in malnutrition and stunted growth, and we're "embraced" by our ancestors living on the brink of starvation & lack of choice.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  frequently by dying In the long term, humans deal with everything by dying. It's rather inefficient and denotes a tendency to run away from any problem that can't be solved within the ~55 years of an educated human period of productivity. Maybe with a little more grit and resolve to avoid such cowardly tactics as death we would undertake longer term projects. But as long as humans insist on dying, that is going to be a nearly impossible challenge. It is hard to get a person motivated to take on a high-stakes challenge when they plan on dying before the consequences of inaction impact them. I propose that all humans make the sensible choice to not die, at least for a century or so longer than their current predilections in this area, to demonstrate their commitment to truly advancing the cause of human kind.
throwaway984393 5y ago
And it doesn't mean we have to keep it, either. It helps to research the particular scenario and find out whether there's a better path than the one we default into.

thaumasiotes 5y ago

> (All this also assumes that aircon is some sort of human right. We could learn how to deal with heat without power, the way we had to for the past 300,000 years) Well, sure, except that the way we dealt with the climate of the American South before air conditioning was by not living there. That is a major reason the South, and not the North, had so many slaves.

tdeck 5y ago

Heating is much more energy intensive than cooling (unless you have a heat pump, aren't particularly common in the U.S). Air conditioning consumes a lot of electrical power in comparison to heating, but if we're counting overall energy efficiency it seems like darker, colder northern climates should have a disadvantage.

Sylamore 5y ago
heat pumps aren't common in the US?
- tdeck 5y ago
  Not for heating, most people heat their homes by burning natural gas or oil. Obviously an AC unit is heat pump but most aren't bidirectional.
- Rebelgecko 5y ago
  I think it varies a lot regionally
BenjiWiebe 5y ago
In some areas, heating is cheaper with propane or wood then with electricity. Air conditioning, however, needs electricity. We heat with wood and propane but air condition with electricity. Our electricity bill is much higher in the summer.

jfrunyon 5y ago

> The poorer the insulation (southern homes' insulation is crap compared to northern) the more you need to pump the aircon. Insulation can only do so much when the outdoor temperature doesn't drop below 80F for weeks at a time.

throwaway984393 5y ago
It doesn't matter how hot it is or for how long, it does its job regardless.