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I could see you point about restrictions on the young if there was no vaccine....but now placing the burden for other people's health on people who aren't vulne

I could see you point about restrictions on the young if there was no vaccine....but now placing the burden for other people's health on people who aren't vulnerable? It seems a bit repressive. It's simply up to the vulnerable populations to get the vaccine.

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
> I could see you point about restrictions on the young What point? I made no such point. Nowhere did I advocate for "restrictions". It's stone cold fact that "I am also safer when the people who I meet are also vaccinated" - if there's an implication from that, you go ahead and make it. > but now placing the burden for other people's health on people who aren't vulnerable Welcome to "living in a society" and "collective action problems". You are going to have to get used them. > It's simply up to the vulnerable populations to get the vaccine. It's simply up to smokers to refrain from smoking around the rest of us. it's simply up to drivers to not drive drunk. Again, welcome to living in a society. We can't "go it alone".
- nickthemagicman 5y ago
  That is not true. If you're vaccinated you have the same chance of getting infected whether the person you're talking to is vaccinated or not, within miniscule margins of error. If we're going to argue about the miniscule margins of error then you might as well ban pharmaceutical medications as well because there's always a chance of adverse side effects.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    Sorry, I disagree. Do not oversimplify. My case is: An unvaccinated person is more likely to be infected, and more likely to shed lots of virus if infected. Vaccinated people can become infected, albeit at a lower rate, therefor being around infected people is not safe, even if vaccinated. This is clearly a mainstream opinion, as masks are still recommended, even for vaccinated people, in many contexts. None of these risks are "miniscule". This diagram might help you understand the basics https://i.redd.it/km870p4xn1d71.jpg https://i.redd.it/km870p4xn1d71.jpg Citation needed for your case.
    - nickthemagicman 5y ago
      Wow I didn't realize how terrible the vaccine was from that diagram you posted! I thought it was equivalent to Polio or MMR. You know what's close to 100% effective? The natural immune system. Efficacy of the immune system is close to 100% in healthy young populations. 30,000 /34 million infected https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-... Another solution instead of forcing people to take a that useless experimental vaccine...is keeping old unhealthy people on quarantine forever. And allowing the 90% of the population who are below 60 and healthy to live their lives.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
        > You know what's close to 100% effective? The natural immune system. I think you're saying that recovery from infection provides better immune response than a vaccine. This is flatly false: https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/why-covid-19-vaccines-offer-better-protection-than-infection.html https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/why-covid-19-vaccine... re-infection does happen too. > useless experimental vaccine The various COVID vaccines are not in any way useless. Current double digit daily mortality figures in the UK, with the same number of cases same as January, which had high three digit mortality figures, demonstrate this starkly. Do not reduce it to binary yes/no thinking. COVID vaccines are _neither_ perfect, not useless. You are a disinformation vector. We are the worse for your presence in this conversation.
        nickthemagicman 5y ago
        You posted an OPINION piece as a citation? And you call me false information? You better learn what VALID citations are before you call ANYTHING false information. You manipulate with incomplete truths and poor statistics. You're a fear vector. People like you are what hundreds of thousands of people in Paris are protesting. Things are not going to end well for people like you. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/protesters-against-covid-restrictions-clash-with-police-paris-bfm-television-2021-07-24/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/protesters-against-covi... I would like you to read this and attempt to understand it: If the vaccine has an improvement in 70% of hospitalizations, like demonstrated in your diagram. (34,000 fatal / 34 million infected) = 0.001 percent chance of fatality in the under 50 age group who are unvaccinated. Now...you're talking about .07 of .001 percent improvement in outcomes. That's insanely small percentage of an insanely small number. You want people under 50 to get an experimental vaccine for that? Apparently the natural immune system is working well enough.

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago

> I could see you point about restrictions on the young What point? I made no such point. Nowhere did I advocate for "restrictions". It's stone cold fact that "I am also safer when the people who I meet are also vaccinated" - if there's an implication from that, you go ahead and make it. > but now placing the burden for other people's health on people who aren't vulnerable Welcome to "living in a society" and "collective action problems". You are going to have to get used them. > It's simply up to the vulnerable populations to get the vaccine. It's simply up to smokers to refrain from smoking around the rest of us. it's simply up to drivers to not drive drunk. Again, welcome to living in a society. We can't "go it alone".

nickthemagicman 5y ago
That is not true. If you're vaccinated you have the same chance of getting infected whether the person you're talking to is vaccinated or not, within miniscule margins of error. If we're going to argue about the miniscule margins of error then you might as well ban pharmaceutical medications as well because there's always a chance of adverse side effects.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  Sorry, I disagree. Do not oversimplify. My case is: An unvaccinated person is more likely to be infected, and more likely to shed lots of virus if infected. Vaccinated people can become infected, albeit at a lower rate, therefor being around infected people is not safe, even if vaccinated. This is clearly a mainstream opinion, as masks are still recommended, even for vaccinated people, in many contexts. None of these risks are "miniscule". This diagram might help you understand the basics https://i.redd.it/km870p4xn1d71.jpg https://i.redd.it/km870p4xn1d71.jpg Citation needed for your case.
  - nickthemagicman 5y ago
    Wow I didn't realize how terrible the vaccine was from that diagram you posted! I thought it was equivalent to Polio or MMR. You know what's close to 100% effective? The natural immune system. Efficacy of the immune system is close to 100% in healthy young populations. 30,000 /34 million infected https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-... Another solution instead of forcing people to take a that useless experimental vaccine...is keeping old unhealthy people on quarantine forever. And allowing the 90% of the population who are below 60 and healthy to live their lives.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
      > You know what's close to 100% effective? The natural immune system. I think you're saying that recovery from infection provides better immune response than a vaccine. This is flatly false: https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/why-covid-19-vaccines-offer-better-protection-than-infection.html https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/why-covid-19-vaccine... re-infection does happen too. > useless experimental vaccine The various COVID vaccines are not in any way useless. Current double digit daily mortality figures in the UK, with the same number of cases same as January, which had high three digit mortality figures, demonstrate this starkly. Do not reduce it to binary yes/no thinking. COVID vaccines are _neither_ perfect, not useless. You are a disinformation vector. We are the worse for your presence in this conversation.
      - nickthemagicman 5y ago
        You posted an OPINION piece as a citation? And you call me false information? You better learn what VALID citations are before you call ANYTHING false information. You manipulate with incomplete truths and poor statistics. You're a fear vector. People like you are what hundreds of thousands of people in Paris are protesting. Things are not going to end well for people like you. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/protesters-against-covid-restrictions-clash-with-police-paris-bfm-television-2021-07-24/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/protesters-against-covi... I would like you to read this and attempt to understand it: If the vaccine has an improvement in 70% of hospitalizations, like demonstrated in your diagram. (34,000 fatal / 34 million infected) = 0.001 percent chance of fatality in the under 50 age group who are unvaccinated. Now...you're talking about .07 of .001 percent improvement in outcomes. That's insanely small percentage of an insanely small number. You want people under 50 to get an experimental vaccine for that? Apparently the natural immune system is working well enough.