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The funny thing is I have a similar issue with an update on my Model S - I know the exact spots where phantom braking engages and just start turning off Autopil
by nkotov 5y ago
The funny thing is I have a similar issue with an update on my Model S - I know the exact spots where phantom braking engages and just start turning off Autopilot in those spots.
- nathanaldensr 5y agoSo now you're driving not from first-party information (your physical senses) but second-party information. Tell me how this makes sense.
- itisit 5y agoMaybe the solution is an ecosystem of supplemental AI that you can pick and choose from to compensate for the undesirable characteristics of Autopilot. Call it “Driveware”.
- cool_dude85 5y agoI'm making a recommender system for suites of disparately-designed, disconnected driving AIs that seem to work well with each other. So you put in that you have a Tesla on FSD update 2021.7.20.123 and the supplemental AIs you want to be sure to use, and my AI will recommend you 3-5 other AI systems that receive good reviews with your existing choices. Thumbs up if you like it, thumbs down if not, if your car is totaled, that's an auto-downvote. Looking for funding.
- dataflow 5y agoWhy not just turn it off? As a fellow driver I feel rather uneasy knowing my safety depends on your ability to predict your car's phantom braking... And by uneasy I mean unsafe enough that I believe you literally should not be allowed to drive like that.
- bob33212 5y agoDon't ever go to a bar in the evening, you will be very uneasy when you see people 5 drinks deep pull out their keys.
- smileysteve 5y agoFor braking; as a following car, you're technically following too close if you can't come to a complete stop if the car in front of you does. Every car is capable of doing this; every car is one transmission / differential / electric motor lockup away from stopping its drive wheels immediately. In an internal combustion engine there are a few other possibilities including a thrown piston or rod, a significant lack of oil
- dataflow 5y ago> For braking; as a following car, you're technically following too close if you can't come to a complete stop if the car in front of you does. Sure, and have you heard of brake checks? They're (very) illegal despite what you said for a reason. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_check Brake testing and tailgating are examples of aggressive driving, and both may be punishable as vehicular assault, careless or reckless driving, or vehicular homicide if death occurs.
- frumper 5y agoYou have to be able to stop because they may stop for reasons other than illegal brake checking.
- jsight 5y agoBecause it generally works really well, and most of the phantom braking is generally 5-10 mph drops that aren't as dramatic as the on in the forum post being referenced.
- dataflow 5y agoHow often do you get a phantom brake > 5-10mph?
- jsight 5y agoTwice in the last year (>13k miles total). One of them involved a truck pulling a fifth wheel that crept into my lane, but not far enough to warrant an emergency braking response. The other was a similar situation involving a vehicle merging in a short merge lane. I think the car was anticipating that the person was merging due to the short space that they had, but in reality they were slowing to wait on me to pass. Both involved the car jumping immediately to a full on panic braking type solution when no collision was imminent or likely. To be clear, I don't know that these involved dropping >10 mph either... but it definitely would have if I hadn't intervened.
- elif 5y agoBy phantom braking, they mean a drop of 10-20 mph to add a safety margin in the potentially hazardous scenario of a car travelling opposed into your lane of travel. It is scary to people because the Tesla makes an unsettling alert noise at the same time the vehicle speed changes slightly. The only way this would result in an accident is with someone else speeding and tailgating. I'll get my tiny violin and 360 dashcam ready for that one.
- dataflow 5y ago> a drop of 10-20 mph > the vehicle speed changes slightly 20mph is not a "slight" change. That's easily a full third of your speed in a freeway (or a quarter if you're speeding), literally the difference between a street and a freeway. And that's easily half your kinetic energy you'd be losing. > The only way this would result in an accident is with someone else speeding and tailgating Surely you can't pretend you've thought of every possible scenario this could turn into an accident? If nothing else, people can momentarily miss the fact that the car in front of them randomly slowed down 20mph, especially when other cars are maintaining their speeds. Doubly so if they're glancing somewhere else to change lanes or watch out for other dangers or whatever. A million things can go wrong that I can't pretend to think of, and I'm shocked you just so confidently ruled them all out. As I see it, just because some of us are mortals, that doesn't excuse letting small mistakes bare our mortality in the middle of a highway.
- HWR_14 5y ago> The only way this would result in an accident is with someone else speeding and tailgating. Let's examine a Tesla traveling at 60 mph starts full on breaking to 40mph, and the person behind them is traveling at (1) the same 60mph and (2) is maintaining the recommended separation for 60 mph and (3) has instant breaking (bonus condition). The driver behind has 2.5 seconds to react to avoid a collision. The average human reaction time for a driver who is expecting breaking soon is 1.5 seconds, but this "phantom breaking"'s deceleration comes out of nowhere. And the average car doesn't have instantaneous speed changes. In fact, an F-150 with similar automatically computer activated breaking would be a coin flip to avoid a collision, certainly a matter of a couple of feet. I've never heard of a better case that even these "safety features" should be disallowed on public roads.