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... which had absolutely nothing to do with refrigerants.

nzgrover 5y ago
This one did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamahere_coolstore_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamahere_coolstore_fire
userbinator 5y ago
I know the article is lengthy, but did you even try to search for refrigerant or freon in it? The air-conditioning also used flammable gas, because Freon was in short supply
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  Which wasn't determined to be a source or contributor to the fire. > The Boston Fire Department investigated possible causes of ignition, the rapid spread of the fire and the catastrophic loss of life. Its report reached no conclusion as to the initial cause of ignition, but attributed the rapid, gaseous spread of the fire to a buildup of carbon monoxide gas due to oxygen-deprived combustion in the enclosed space above the false ceiling of the Melody Lounge. The gas exuded from enclosed spaces as its temperature rose and ignited rapidly as it mixed with oxygen above the entryway, up the stairway to the main floor and along ceilings. The fire accelerated as the stairway created a thermal draft, and the high-temperature gas fire ignited pyroxylin (leatherette) wall and ceiling covering in the foyer, which in turn exuded flammable gas. Yes, they used flammable gas in the AC, no that was not determined to be a source or contributing factor to the fire.
  - userbinator 5y ago
    Keep reading... During the 1990s, former Boston firefighter and researcher Charles Kenney discovered that a highly flammable gas refrigerant, methyl chloride, had been used as a substitute for freon, which was in short wartime supply.[18] Kenney reported that floor plans, but not the fire investigation report, showed air-conditioning condenser units near street level on the other side of a non-structural wall from the Melody Lounge, and that these units had been serviced since the start of the war. Kenney also reported that photographic evidence indicates an origin for the fire in the wall behind the palm tree and suggested ignition of methyl chloride accelerant by an electrical failure caused by substandard wiring.
    - userbinator 5y ago
      So, anyone care to actually offer a rebuttal? Apparently not...
    - ashtonkem 5y ago
      So the claim is that people fear flammable refrigerants because a 1940s fire was blamed on flammable refrigerants by a single researcher in the 1990s contrary to the original reports half a century prior? That is an extraordinary claim, and frankly one that seems quite implausible. I’d need to see any evidence whatsoever that people’s preferences here are driven by reports of fires like this. Honestly, I’d be surprised if most people are even aware of anything about the refrigerants used other than the fact that Freon is bad for the ozone layer. My chest freezer has a giant “uses propane” sticker on the side and the flammability of that never even crossed my mind, to be honest. Also, complaining about down votes will always get you more downvotes.
      - userbinator 5y ago
        It should not be surprising at all that reviewing the evidence with a few decades more knowledge would yield slightly different conclusions. If you read more about the history of that fire, you'll find that they still don't completely understand what happened. Back then, they knew nothing about ozone depletion, for example.
        nate_meurer 5y ago
        > they still don't completely understand what happened Which is a very different assertion than your original, "People remember things like this". I have home heating and cooking powered by propane. So do millions of other people. Nobody (except you apparently) seriously considers an obscure incident 70 years ago to justify irrational fear of a flammable gas that is alredy piped into millions of homes by the cubic foot.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]

This one did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamahere_coolstore_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamahere_coolstore_fire

userbinator 5y ago

I know the article is lengthy, but did you even try to search for refrigerant or freon in it? The air-conditioning also used flammable gas, because Freon was in short supply

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ashtonkem 5y ago
Which wasn't determined to be a source or contributor to the fire. > The Boston Fire Department investigated possible causes of ignition, the rapid spread of the fire and the catastrophic loss of life. Its report reached no conclusion as to the initial cause of ignition, but attributed the rapid, gaseous spread of the fire to a buildup of carbon monoxide gas due to oxygen-deprived combustion in the enclosed space above the false ceiling of the Melody Lounge. The gas exuded from enclosed spaces as its temperature rose and ignited rapidly as it mixed with oxygen above the entryway, up the stairway to the main floor and along ceilings. The fire accelerated as the stairway created a thermal draft, and the high-temperature gas fire ignited pyroxylin (leatherette) wall and ceiling covering in the foyer, which in turn exuded flammable gas. Yes, they used flammable gas in the AC, no that was not determined to be a source or contributing factor to the fire.
- userbinator 5y ago
  Keep reading... During the 1990s, former Boston firefighter and researcher Charles Kenney discovered that a highly flammable gas refrigerant, methyl chloride, had been used as a substitute for freon, which was in short wartime supply.[18] Kenney reported that floor plans, but not the fire investigation report, showed air-conditioning condenser units near street level on the other side of a non-structural wall from the Melody Lounge, and that these units had been serviced since the start of the war. Kenney also reported that photographic evidence indicates an origin for the fire in the wall behind the palm tree and suggested ignition of methyl chloride accelerant by an electrical failure caused by substandard wiring.
  - userbinator 5y ago
    So, anyone care to actually offer a rebuttal? Apparently not...
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    So the claim is that people fear flammable refrigerants because a 1940s fire was blamed on flammable refrigerants by a single researcher in the 1990s contrary to the original reports half a century prior? That is an extraordinary claim, and frankly one that seems quite implausible. I’d need to see any evidence whatsoever that people’s preferences here are driven by reports of fires like this. Honestly, I’d be surprised if most people are even aware of anything about the refrigerants used other than the fact that Freon is bad for the ozone layer. My chest freezer has a giant “uses propane” sticker on the side and the flammability of that never even crossed my mind, to be honest. Also, complaining about down votes will always get you more downvotes.
    - userbinator 5y ago
      It should not be surprising at all that reviewing the evidence with a few decades more knowledge would yield slightly different conclusions. If you read more about the history of that fire, you'll find that they still don't completely understand what happened. Back then, they knew nothing about ozone depletion, for example.
      - nate_meurer 5y ago
        > they still don't completely understand what happened Which is a very different assertion than your original, "People remember things like this". I have home heating and cooking powered by propane. So do millions of other people. Nobody (except you apparently) seriously considers an obscure incident 70 years ago to justify irrational fear of a flammable gas that is alredy piped into millions of homes by the cubic foot.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]