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It's kinda sad that this is the top comment. Why would that be true, as in, why would enjoyment mean anything here? Most people enjoy eating cake, I sure do, bu

by sershe 5y ago

It's kinda sad that this is the top comment. Why would that be true, as in, why would enjoyment mean anything here? Most people enjoy eating cake, I sure do, but it's probably a negative to their long term health and well-being. For an example, my understanding is that weight lifting is better for weight loss than cardio, contrary to the popular perception... if your goal is to lose weight, you'd better do what works best and not what you enjoy, or at least choose the activity that you enjoy most out of the ones best for the job.

swsieber 5y ago
I believe I could sum up the original comment as "perfect is the enemy of good, and enjoyment greatly contributes to something sticking". I do think a lot of people (myself included) get hung up on doing it the Right Way (TM) that we don't do anything it all.
- dalbasal 5y ago
  A pathology of our day. Look at it this way... (1) Basically any class on offer at your gym, taken daily, will get you fit, sexy & healthy. Pilates, weights, swimming, wall climbing. They all work good, as long as you keep doing them and don't quit. (2) Quitting is extremely likely. Most of us quit most of the exercise regimes we start. Given these two points, the only thing worth optimising is "how not to quit." A good start is aiming for that "sweet spot" where you feel satisfaction, but not soreness or burnout. If you have to make yourself take a recovery day, that's a good place to be. Obviously also life stuff. Scheduling, social stuff, etc.
koonsolo 5y ago
You will never keep doing something if you don't enjoy it. So it's better to do something suboptimal that you enjoy, than not do the optimal thing because you hate it. And cardio definitely helps with weight loss, because all the bodybuilders do it for cutting. For me it's bodyweight excercises and running. And I don't really care if there would be something else that's better. And about the cake example, you probably want to replace that with healthy food that you enjoy, not with the most healthy that you detest. Otherwise you will drop out immediately.
- sershe 5y ago
  1) As for replacing the cake with "healthy food you enjoy", that is exactly my point. You start with what works. Then out of that you can choose what you enjoy. So, you don't eat tons of cake because that's what you enjoy - you first narrow down to what works, then choose e.g. apples, or whatever. 2) The 2nd part about enjoyment vs dropping I just completely disagree with. 2.1) Enjoyment often builds up with confidence and success, especially in the areas where you make rapid progress as a beginner, like weight-lifting or cardio or most PT really. 2.2) In general, this mindset where you only do things as you enjoy and don't try to develop any grit is terrible, especially for people who don't start out with an advantage in a given area (health, financial, smarts, mood, etc). And more so for people who have self-inflicted problems in a given area - the problems that stem from doing what they "enjoy".
  - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
    I think for 2.2 that I eat veggie soups instead of salads when I want to eat primarily vegetables doesn’t have any correlation on my grit or lack thereof. I think this might be assuming a much more extreme position that was presented. No one is saying “only do things you enjoy”, only “if you’re going to take life choices to improve your health, work on improvements that don’t give you negative reinforcement against improving your health”.
blunte 5y ago
I'm a huge proponent of weight lifting. I hate cardio. But I do know that if you only do lifting and don't do cardio, stretching, and the other boring stuff, you will get less value from your lifting. You do the cardio to build more endurance, a stronger heart, and apparently a more efficient use of the oxygen in your blood. TFA didn't seem to be about weight loss; it was about declining health. And in that case, virtually any consistent exercise would be an improvement. Whatever it is that gets someone off their sofa regularly is a good starting point. If that activity is weight lifting, then perhaps they will enjoy the extra benefits of better strength, higher metabolism, a feeling of more energy, etc.
dalbasal 5y ago
That would be good advice if you are 100% disciplined, which irl usually means that you're under someone else's discipline. For most people most of the time, running out of discipline and quitting is the failure point. The relative merits of running vs weights vs judo are trivial relative to the merits of continuous exercise habit throughout your life. You'll naturally gravitate towards little optimisations and improvements anyway, if you keep showing up. If you're a pro athlete, where showing up is a given, then the difference between high rep and low rep matters. Otherwise, it's like premature optimisation. Even for pros, like professional writers, the most common advice relates to showing up every day.

by sershe 5y ago

swsieber 5y ago

I believe I could sum up the original comment as "perfect is the enemy of good, and enjoyment greatly contributes to something sticking". I do think a lot of people (myself included) get hung up on doing it the Right Way (TM) that we don't do anything it all.

dalbasal 5y ago
A pathology of our day. Look at it this way... (1) Basically any class on offer at your gym, taken daily, will get you fit, sexy & healthy. Pilates, weights, swimming, wall climbing. They all work good, as long as you keep doing them and don't quit. (2) Quitting is extremely likely. Most of us quit most of the exercise regimes we start. Given these two points, the only thing worth optimising is "how not to quit." A good start is aiming for that "sweet spot" where you feel satisfaction, but not soreness or burnout. If you have to make yourself take a recovery day, that's a good place to be. Obviously also life stuff. Scheduling, social stuff, etc.

koonsolo 5y ago

You will never keep doing something if you don't enjoy it. So it's better to do something suboptimal that you enjoy, than not do the optimal thing because you hate it. And cardio definitely helps with weight loss, because all the bodybuilders do it for cutting. For me it's bodyweight excercises and running. And I don't really care if there would be something else that's better. And about the cake example, you probably want to replace that with healthy food that you enjoy, not with the most healthy that you detest. Otherwise you will drop out immediately.

sershe 5y ago
1) As for replacing the cake with "healthy food you enjoy", that is exactly my point. You start with what works. Then out of that you can choose what you enjoy. So, you don't eat tons of cake because that's what you enjoy - you first narrow down to what works, then choose e.g. apples, or whatever. 2) The 2nd part about enjoyment vs dropping I just completely disagree with. 2.1) Enjoyment often builds up with confidence and success, especially in the areas where you make rapid progress as a beginner, like weight-lifting or cardio or most PT really. 2.2) In general, this mindset where you only do things as you enjoy and don't try to develop any grit is terrible, especially for people who don't start out with an advantage in a given area (health, financial, smarts, mood, etc). And more so for people who have self-inflicted problems in a given area - the problems that stem from doing what they "enjoy".
- SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
  I think for 2.2 that I eat veggie soups instead of salads when I want to eat primarily vegetables doesn’t have any correlation on my grit or lack thereof. I think this might be assuming a much more extreme position that was presented. No one is saying “only do things you enjoy”, only “if you’re going to take life choices to improve your health, work on improvements that don’t give you negative reinforcement against improving your health”.

blunte 5y ago

I'm a huge proponent of weight lifting. I hate cardio. But I do know that if you only do lifting and don't do cardio, stretching, and the other boring stuff, you will get less value from your lifting. You do the cardio to build more endurance, a stronger heart, and apparently a more efficient use of the oxygen in your blood. TFA didn't seem to be about weight loss; it was about declining health. And in that case, virtually any consistent exercise would be an improvement. Whatever it is that gets someone off their sofa regularly is a good starting point. If that activity is weight lifting, then perhaps they will enjoy the extra benefits of better strength, higher metabolism, a feeling of more energy, etc.

dalbasal 5y ago

That would be good advice if you are 100% disciplined, which irl usually means that you're under someone else's discipline. For most people most of the time, running out of discipline and quitting is the failure point. The relative merits of running vs weights vs judo are trivial relative to the merits of continuous exercise habit throughout your life. You'll naturally gravitate towards little optimisations and improvements anyway, if you keep showing up. If you're a pro athlete, where showing up is a given, then the difference between high rep and low rep matters. Otherwise, it's like premature optimisation. Even for pros, like professional writers, the most common advice relates to showing up every day.