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I don't understand the continuous hate or disdain for marketing. Saying hacking is the opposite of marketing is like saying lounge chairs are the opposite of

I don't understand the continuous hate or disdain for marketing. Saying hacking is the opposite of marketing is like saying lounge chairs are the opposite of camels. Neither makes the least bit of sense. Who do you want - your buddy that can pull your teeth out with a pair of rusty pliers (wow, hacking!!!) or a board certified dentist that specializes in orthodontics, or surgery using specialized tools? Nobody ever said McGuivering is bad, mind you. Who has never used a penny for a screwdriver? But who the f wants to do that for everything? Who wants to create their own custom operating system that will take 18 months to create before you can even use a computer, which of course, you make from plywood, horseshoes, and and the blood of 13 virgins. Create your own hacked toaster, chairs, microwave oven, electric automobile...who the hell has time to hack everything that they need in life. But back to marketing. All what marketing means is to let people know, by any way that works, is that you have a thing that can help other people. As they say, what good is creating a cure for cancer in your basement, and never tell a single soul about it? That's just dumb. You think that people will know by magic? I mean, even word-of-mouth is marketing. Everything is marketing, if it means letting people know. Posters, flyers, emails, cold calling, tv ads, radio ads, giving seminars/webinars, web sites - everything is marketing that let's people know that you have something that can be useful for them. Even supermarkets and department stores are actually marketing - people go to them not to buy things, but to see what is available, what choices are available, and THEN buy what they need. Stores are pure marketing, that's their primary purpose, and then, after you see what they got on their shelves, THEN you make the purchase. Sure, some people may buy things without looking and reading and looking at all the alternatives, but that's only because they already did it in the past.

cannabis_sam 5y ago
>All what marketing means is to let people know, by any way that works, is that you have a thing that can help other people. What is this? The 1890s? Marketing has regressed far from “letting people know”, through and beyond psychological manipulation into a world where truth and reality literally does not matter as long you market it correctly to each demographic.
- France_is_bacon 5y ago
  Maybe for the very largest companies, but I work in a world where companies don't even have a website because they think it is a waste of money. Where they say, "We have never done any marketing ever, why start now?". And that is the vast majority of companies. Companies with 30 or 100 people don't have 10 statisticians on staff, backed up by 20 behavioral psychologists, in order to do what you are saying. Does Facebook and Google and Fortune 500 have all these resources? Sure. Undoubtably. But I've talked to thousands of business owners this year, and, trust me, this is definitely not the case. And to repeat, this is with thousands of business owners I've talked to this year alone. Have you personally talked to this many this year? How about the last 10 years? How many business owners have you talked to, personally? Trust me, most companies that are not in the Fortune 1000 don't do this. There are over 31.7 million small businesses in the United States, according to March 2021 data released by the SBA. 90% of businesses in the U.S. are small, with less than 20 employees. Only 10% of all businesses in the U.S. employ more than 100 people.
  - cannabis_sam 5y ago
    I obviously don’t have your exact experience with marketing, but I doubt that the volume of “small businesses” anyone have talked to is a useful measure. Luckily for those small businesses without statisticians or behavioral psychologists, it’s trivial to buy marketing services from a multitude of specialized providers, all the way from traditional ad companies, through guerilla marketing, social media spam and black hat seo, to more nefarious shit like cambridge analytica.
LegitShady 5y ago
Marketing is mostly convincing people to overpay for things they don’t need. How can you not understand the disdain for it?
- France_is_bacon 5y ago
  This is only in your preconceived prejudices. If you own a restaurant, and all other restaurants of your caliber are charging $8 for a hamburger, you're not going to be able to charge $5,289 for a hamburger. There's a wide range of options, too. I buy pens at the dollar store - $1 for 12 pens. The Fulgor Nocturnus pen by Tibaldi was sold for $8,000,000. What, you think their marketing is going to make me buy it? I was going to the store to buy a pen for 8.3 cents, but heard an ad on the radio for the Fulgor Nocturnus for 10% off for $7.2 million and just was instantly mind-controlled and spend the money? Ridiculous. You just have this pre-conceived notion of what marketing actually is. And tell me...if you have something to sell, like a bike or you went into the bagel business and wanted to sell bagels, how exactly would you do it without marketing? Tell me, I want to know. Just sit in your basement with 50,000 bagels and wait for people to magically walk in the door? If you want a new job, you have to market yourself. Your resume is your marketing collateral. There's also other ways to market yourself - by public speaking, or by public writing, for example. I don't know, maybe you think that when you go to get a job, you don't want people to overpay you, so you just automatically say you'll work for $7.25 per hour, the federal minimum wage. Can't overcharge yourself, better make the minimum wage. Me, I'll try to get maximum salary. Silly.
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    Your examples have nothing to do with reality. Of course not all people will not egregiously overpay for everything, but that isn’t a rebuttal to what I said. You can ask ten million for a gallon of milk, fifteen million for a hair brush, a trillion for a car - those aren’t rebuttals to the purpose of marketing. If I want to market something, I’m doing it because I want to sell it at maximal cost, whether its a bike or bagel. That too isn’t a rebuttal to what I said. Basically your entire post is justifications for marketing that don’t actually rebut what I said, because you are somehow deeply tied to marketing and feel the need to defend it and somehow justify it for any reason. Marketing is getting people to overpay for things they don’t need.

cannabis_sam 5y ago

>All what marketing means is to let people know, by any way that works, is that you have a thing that can help other people. What is this? The 1890s? Marketing has regressed far from “letting people know”, through and beyond psychological manipulation into a world where truth and reality literally does not matter as long you market it correctly to each demographic.

France_is_bacon 5y ago
Maybe for the very largest companies, but I work in a world where companies don't even have a website because they think it is a waste of money. Where they say, "We have never done any marketing ever, why start now?". And that is the vast majority of companies. Companies with 30 or 100 people don't have 10 statisticians on staff, backed up by 20 behavioral psychologists, in order to do what you are saying. Does Facebook and Google and Fortune 500 have all these resources? Sure. Undoubtably. But I've talked to thousands of business owners this year, and, trust me, this is definitely not the case. And to repeat, this is with thousands of business owners I've talked to this year alone. Have you personally talked to this many this year? How about the last 10 years? How many business owners have you talked to, personally? Trust me, most companies that are not in the Fortune 1000 don't do this. There are over 31.7 million small businesses in the United States, according to March 2021 data released by the SBA. 90% of businesses in the U.S. are small, with less than 20 employees. Only 10% of all businesses in the U.S. employ more than 100 people.
- cannabis_sam 5y ago
  I obviously don’t have your exact experience with marketing, but I doubt that the volume of “small businesses” anyone have talked to is a useful measure. Luckily for those small businesses without statisticians or behavioral psychologists, it’s trivial to buy marketing services from a multitude of specialized providers, all the way from traditional ad companies, through guerilla marketing, social media spam and black hat seo, to more nefarious shit like cambridge analytica.

LegitShady 5y ago

Marketing is mostly convincing people to overpay for things they don’t need. How can you not understand the disdain for it?

France_is_bacon 5y ago
This is only in your preconceived prejudices. If you own a restaurant, and all other restaurants of your caliber are charging $8 for a hamburger, you're not going to be able to charge $5,289 for a hamburger. There's a wide range of options, too. I buy pens at the dollar store - $1 for 12 pens. The Fulgor Nocturnus pen by Tibaldi was sold for $8,000,000. What, you think their marketing is going to make me buy it? I was going to the store to buy a pen for 8.3 cents, but heard an ad on the radio for the Fulgor Nocturnus for 10% off for $7.2 million and just was instantly mind-controlled and spend the money? Ridiculous. You just have this pre-conceived notion of what marketing actually is. And tell me...if you have something to sell, like a bike or you went into the bagel business and wanted to sell bagels, how exactly would you do it without marketing? Tell me, I want to know. Just sit in your basement with 50,000 bagels and wait for people to magically walk in the door? If you want a new job, you have to market yourself. Your resume is your marketing collateral. There's also other ways to market yourself - by public speaking, or by public writing, for example. I don't know, maybe you think that when you go to get a job, you don't want people to overpay you, so you just automatically say you'll work for $7.25 per hour, the federal minimum wage. Can't overcharge yourself, better make the minimum wage. Me, I'll try to get maximum salary. Silly.
- LegitShady 5y ago
  Your examples have nothing to do with reality. Of course not all people will not egregiously overpay for everything, but that isn’t a rebuttal to what I said. You can ask ten million for a gallon of milk, fifteen million for a hair brush, a trillion for a car - those aren’t rebuttals to the purpose of marketing. If I want to market something, I’m doing it because I want to sell it at maximal cost, whether its a bike or bagel. That too isn’t a rebuttal to what I said. Basically your entire post is justifications for marketing that don’t actually rebut what I said, because you are somehow deeply tied to marketing and feel the need to defend it and somehow justify it for any reason. Marketing is getting people to overpay for things they don’t need.