5 ms·

Tobacco firm Philip Morris calls for ban on cigarettes within decade

18 points by samizdis 5y ago

jbrot 5y ago
Very surprising to see this headline (although I doubt it will come to pass). Given recent movements towards ending the war on drugs (e.g., legalizing Marijuana), it seems rather hypocritical to then try and ban cigarettes. Admittedly this is in the UK, and I’m not super familiar with their politics.
- smt88 5y ago
  The taxpayer cost of legal marijuana is far, far, far less than the taxpayer cost of legal tobacco.
  - boxed 5y ago
    ...so far. But the sociatal cost of cigarettes is all about the cancer. Smoking weed has the same problem. Legalizing smoking weed was/will be a mistake. Other methods of ingesting are another story entirely.
    - robbedpeter 5y ago
      Nobody is going to be smoking 20+ joints per day, every day. Cigarettes also have more carcinogenic chemicals per unit of inhaled smoke, so it's not a 1 to 1 comparison. Smoking weed also has anti-inflammatory effects, and other chemistry that counters some of the negative effects of combustion. It's not great for you, but its level of harm is closer to vaping than to smoking cigarettes. If someone does persistently smoke comparable amounts of marijuana per day, they're also likely to have a substance abuse issue. I don't think even Snoop or Willie do it like that.
      - bko 5y ago
        Marijuana has other negative side effects especially when used by people under 18. I don't know about the long term evidence, but I would bet there are cognitive issues associated with regular use, such as short term memory loss. It is also surprisingly common and socially accepted to drive while under the influence.
  - mc32 5y ago
    What would it be if it reaches saturation like cigarettes did?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - smt88 5y ago
      First, the number of marijuana users is likely not far away from the number of tobacco smokers in the US. It still wouldn't be close. It's much more expensive to treat a single case of cancer (or lose a person's life) than it does to treat a single case of... whatever marijuana causes. Just the fact that marijuana isn't known to dramatically increase fatalities in its tens of millions of users should tell us what we need to know.
possiblelion 5y ago
PMI is shutting down cigarette production in all its forms anyway and focusing on using their inhalation expertise in the medical sector + e-cigarettes and IQOS products. Just some context.
commoner 5y ago
> PMI is pushing the IQOS, a cigarette device that heats tobacco to deliver nicotine without the smoke and tar that cause diseases including cancer. It's not clear how much safer heated tobacco products (such as IQOS) are than traditional cigarettes. Most studies are sponsored by the tobacco industry. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0761842518303632 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S07618... > Of the 100 papers published in 2008–2018, 75 have authors affiliated or linked to TI [tobacco industry]. Emissions contain gases, droplets and solid particles, so are smokes. The main products are: THS2.2 (Iqos®) which heats mini-cigarettes at 340 °C, the THP1.0 (Glo®) which heats at 240 °C sticks delivering about half as much nicotine, Ploom® which uses reconstituted tobacco microcapsules heated at 180 °C. Under the experimental conditions, there is a reduction of toxic emissions and biological effects, but the expected risk reduction is not demonstrated. Symptoms related to passive smoking are described. The 4 epidemiological articles report that heated tobacco is used in 10 to 45% of cases by non-smokers and demonstrate the effectiveness of TI promotion campaigns. Thus, the THS2.2 is more a gateway to smoking (20%) than an exit door (11%); moreover, it is not expected risk reduction among the 69% who are mixed users.
- c7DJTLrn 5y ago
  Vaping is fairly popular, safe, and satisfies the urge for most people. What's the market for this device?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - bsder 5y ago
    > Vaping is fairly popular, safe No. Vaping is not "safe". Please stop saying this. Vaping is safer than cigarettes. That seems to be true. Vaping is a great intermediate step to try to get people off of cigarettes. Vaping is NOT safer than not vaping. One huge problem with vaping is that it has infested the high schools and reversed 25 years of anti-smoking efforts.
    - 5y ago

18 points by samizdis 5y ago

Very surprising to see this headline (although I doubt it will come to pass). Given recent movements towards ending the war on drugs (e.g., legalizing Marijuana), it seems rather hypocritical to then try and ban cigarettes. Admittedly this is in the UK, and I’m not super familiar with their politics.

smt88 5y ago
The taxpayer cost of legal marijuana is far, far, far less than the taxpayer cost of legal tobacco.
- boxed 5y ago
  ...so far. But the sociatal cost of cigarettes is all about the cancer. Smoking weed has the same problem. Legalizing smoking weed was/will be a mistake. Other methods of ingesting are another story entirely.
  - robbedpeter 5y ago
    Nobody is going to be smoking 20+ joints per day, every day. Cigarettes also have more carcinogenic chemicals per unit of inhaled smoke, so it's not a 1 to 1 comparison. Smoking weed also has anti-inflammatory effects, and other chemistry that counters some of the negative effects of combustion. It's not great for you, but its level of harm is closer to vaping than to smoking cigarettes. If someone does persistently smoke comparable amounts of marijuana per day, they're also likely to have a substance abuse issue. I don't think even Snoop or Willie do it like that.
    - bko 5y ago
      Marijuana has other negative side effects especially when used by people under 18. I don't know about the long term evidence, but I would bet there are cognitive issues associated with regular use, such as short term memory loss. It is also surprisingly common and socially accepted to drive while under the influence.
- mc32 5y ago
  What would it be if it reaches saturation like cigarettes did?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - smt88 5y ago
    First, the number of marijuana users is likely not far away from the number of tobacco smokers in the US. It still wouldn't be close. It's much more expensive to treat a single case of cancer (or lose a person's life) than it does to treat a single case of... whatever marijuana causes. Just the fact that marijuana isn't known to dramatically increase fatalities in its tens of millions of users should tell us what we need to know.

possiblelion 5y ago

PMI is shutting down cigarette production in all its forms anyway and focusing on using their inhalation expertise in the medical sector + e-cigarettes and IQOS products. Just some context.

commoner 5y ago

> PMI is pushing the IQOS, a cigarette device that heats tobacco to deliver nicotine without the smoke and tar that cause diseases including cancer. It's not clear how much safer heated tobacco products (such as IQOS) are than traditional cigarettes. Most studies are sponsored by the tobacco industry. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0761842518303632 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S07618... > Of the 100 papers published in 2008–2018, 75 have authors affiliated or linked to TI [tobacco industry]. Emissions contain gases, droplets and solid particles, so are smokes. The main products are: THS2.2 (Iqos®) which heats mini-cigarettes at 340 °C, the THP1.0 (Glo®) which heats at 240 °C sticks delivering about half as much nicotine, Ploom® which uses reconstituted tobacco microcapsules heated at 180 °C. Under the experimental conditions, there is a reduction of toxic emissions and biological effects, but the expected risk reduction is not demonstrated. Symptoms related to passive smoking are described. The 4 epidemiological articles report that heated tobacco is used in 10 to 45% of cases by non-smokers and demonstrate the effectiveness of TI promotion campaigns. Thus, the THS2.2 is more a gateway to smoking (20%) than an exit door (11%); moreover, it is not expected risk reduction among the 69% who are mixed users.

c7DJTLrn 5y ago
Vaping is fairly popular, safe, and satisfies the urge for most people. What's the market for this device?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bsder 5y ago
  > Vaping is fairly popular, safe No. Vaping is not "safe". Please stop saying this. Vaping is safer than cigarettes. That seems to be true. Vaping is a great intermediate step to try to get people off of cigarettes. Vaping is NOT safer than not vaping. One huge problem with vaping is that it has infested the high schools and reversed 25 years of anti-smoking efforts.
  - 5y ago