4 ms·

> Nah, these are two separate problems. First is the technological problem of producing enough food, building material, medicine, etc. There is no technologica

> Nah, these are two separate problems. First is the technological problem of producing enough food, building material, medicine, etc. There is no technological problem. We are already wasting more food that would be necessary to feed people who are starving. Even USSR, at the height of its inefficiency, was able to build housing for most of its inhabitants. It wasn't palaces but it did its job. And when we need we can somehow find a way to crank out vaccine to vaccinate entire countries. And these are given out for free (of course, we pay for them in taxes, but still it can be done...) > Then there is the problem of the political class not unwilling I think you meant "willing". Here, this is the problem. When you say it is "political class", what you really say it is not your problem. And this is the cause of why this is not getting solved. Because the problem is really you and other people like you who think it is not their problem. If the people decided it is a problem worth solving and supported it with their votes, the "political class" would follow and solve the problem. The "political class" responds to what is on peoples minds and to what people want. If people decide to spend their focus quabbling over building big walls or election results or vaccine efficacy, guess what is not getting solved? Anything else isn't getting solved.

runarberg 5y ago
Being an immigrant and not allowed to vote, it is not fair to claim I’m responsible for the political class. Also public opinion rarely results in policy. Most Americans for example favor spending on green infrastructure to tackle the climate crisis, most Americans favor a more universal health care system, etc. yet the political class is hesitant.
- lmilcin 5y ago
  Being an immigrant you are in a special position. In most countries people do have power to change things, if enough of them want to. There are some exceptions like China or various regimes. But even Chinese Communist Party is very scared to allow their population to exchange knowledge freely, for fear they can just coordinate and decide together.
amalcon 5y ago
The technological problem (assuming it exists, which I tend to agree it does not) is in logistics, not in production.
- runarberg 5y ago
  That feels like an excuse a politician would make. Logistics is never a real problem that halts execution. Yes it is often a hard problem and is often done wrong, resulting in things getting done slowly and inefficiently. However it is seldom the reason for nothing being done at all. E.g. usually we don’t wait months or years until the logistics problem has been solved. The technological problem of feeding and housing every human on earth has been solved many times over. The logistics of distributing the available food and shelter to those that need is poorly designed and needs an overhaul. This is a political problem and can only be fixed with the political class that is seemingly unwilling.
inglor_cz 5y ago
In USSR and many other countries of the Soviet Bloc, it was also illegal not to work. Exceptions applied (mothers with young kids, registered artists), but otherwise this was enforced and if you stayed out of work for a certain period and didn't have a valid employer stamp in your papers, you would be chucked into prison for Parasitism (that was the name of the crime). As a result, the Bloc had almost no visible homelessness, but this kind of solution would probably not fly in the West.
- lmilcin 5y ago
  I am certainly not defending USSR. Just showing that there is no need for technological progress to build a lot of housing from public budget, only willingness to do it.
mantas 5y ago
> Even USSR, at the height of its inefficiency, was able to build housing for most of its inhabitants. It wasn't palaces but it did its job. Roof over the head sure does the job. But in exchange a big portion of USSR population lived in essentially shared housing. You get a room and shared amenities (shared kitchen, shared shower, shared WC). In most career paths it would take a decade or more to be eligible for an apartment. And that apartment would be tiny. Got a kid? Great, you go up the queue and you get 1 room (kitchen + room, no living room) apartment! Got 2 kids? Nice, you get 2 rooms (not 2 bedrooms). Of course, in some career paths it was much more comfy. A nuclear power plant built in bumfucknowhere? Well, anybody willing to go there even for an unqualified job gets a super spacious (compared to above) apartment on arrival. In exchange someone in a big city with no kids may be stuck in shared housing whole life with no chance to have his own apartment.
- runarberg 5y ago
  Doesn’t sound that much different from today’s Europe or North America. Except low skilled workers in low payed career paths get sub-par living conditions irregardless of family size. Perhaps the only difference is that low payed workers in Europe and North America have the option to live far away from their work and suffer long commute hours instead of the small living quarters. Although that option is starting to feel like it is forced upon us now as even the tiniest of apartments are also out of reach for normal working families in big cities.

runarberg 5y ago

Being an immigrant and not allowed to vote, it is not fair to claim I’m responsible for the political class. Also public opinion rarely results in policy. Most Americans for example favor spending on green infrastructure to tackle the climate crisis, most Americans favor a more universal health care system, etc. yet the political class is hesitant.

lmilcin 5y ago
Being an immigrant you are in a special position. In most countries people do have power to change things, if enough of them want to. There are some exceptions like China or various regimes. But even Chinese Communist Party is very scared to allow their population to exchange knowledge freely, for fear they can just coordinate and decide together.

amalcon 5y ago

The technological problem (assuming it exists, which I tend to agree it does not) is in logistics, not in production.

runarberg 5y ago
That feels like an excuse a politician would make. Logistics is never a real problem that halts execution. Yes it is often a hard problem and is often done wrong, resulting in things getting done slowly and inefficiently. However it is seldom the reason for nothing being done at all. E.g. usually we don’t wait months or years until the logistics problem has been solved. The technological problem of feeding and housing every human on earth has been solved many times over. The logistics of distributing the available food and shelter to those that need is poorly designed and needs an overhaul. This is a political problem and can only be fixed with the political class that is seemingly unwilling.

inglor_cz 5y ago

In USSR and many other countries of the Soviet Bloc, it was also illegal not to work. Exceptions applied (mothers with young kids, registered artists), but otherwise this was enforced and if you stayed out of work for a certain period and didn't have a valid employer stamp in your papers, you would be chucked into prison for Parasitism (that was the name of the crime). As a result, the Bloc had almost no visible homelessness, but this kind of solution would probably not fly in the West.

lmilcin 5y ago
I am certainly not defending USSR. Just showing that there is no need for technological progress to build a lot of housing from public budget, only willingness to do it.

mantas 5y ago

> Even USSR, at the height of its inefficiency, was able to build housing for most of its inhabitants. It wasn't palaces but it did its job. Roof over the head sure does the job. But in exchange a big portion of USSR population lived in essentially shared housing. You get a room and shared amenities (shared kitchen, shared shower, shared WC). In most career paths it would take a decade or more to be eligible for an apartment. And that apartment would be tiny. Got a kid? Great, you go up the queue and you get 1 room (kitchen + room, no living room) apartment! Got 2 kids? Nice, you get 2 rooms (not 2 bedrooms). Of course, in some career paths it was much more comfy. A nuclear power plant built in bumfucknowhere? Well, anybody willing to go there even for an unqualified job gets a super spacious (compared to above) apartment on arrival. In exchange someone in a big city with no kids may be stuck in shared housing whole life with no chance to have his own apartment.

runarberg 5y ago
Doesn’t sound that much different from today’s Europe or North America. Except low skilled workers in low payed career paths get sub-par living conditions irregardless of family size. Perhaps the only difference is that low payed workers in Europe and North America have the option to live far away from their work and suffer long commute hours instead of the small living quarters. Although that option is starting to feel like it is forced upon us now as even the tiniest of apartments are also out of reach for normal working families in big cities.