4 ms·

"After Shapira and Plichta were caught by the remainder of the peloton the rest of the riders seemed to believe that they were racing amongst themselves for Gol

by polote 5y ago

"After Shapira and Plichta were caught by the remainder of the peloton the rest of the riders seemed to believe that they were racing amongst themselves for Gold, unaware that Kiesenhofer was still in front." Not saying she shouldn't had won, but when nobody is pursuing you, it is much easier to win. We have seen in the men race that even when people know there is one person in front, 80% of the riders prefer not to force to prevent the strongest guy of the group to win the sprint. (Who won the sprint anyway)

zucker42 5y ago
Tactics are as important as strength in cycling. The strongest person doesn't always win.
Denvercoder9 5y ago
The road race at the Olympics is somewhat of an outlier in cycling. It uses national teams as opposed to commerical teams, so riders ride with unfamilar teammates, and in this case the biggest favorites were actually teammates. It also bans radios, so there's no direct communication between the coaches and the riders possible.
- ossusermivami 5y ago
  world/european championship has the same national structure as the olympics, the radios are present in those races, so in that way the olympics is unique.
- jessaustin 5y ago
  I didn't see this race yet, and although I enjoy watching it I'm no expert on road cycling. However, ISTR that in every televised race there is a particular motorcycle that stays with the lead rider(s). If a racer thinks she's on the front and doesn't see that motorcycle around somewhere, shouldn't she reconsider her position? Also the racers who had been on the breakaway and got caught knew she was still up there, but they might not have cared to tell anyone about it.
  - Denvercoder9 5y ago
    There's usually motorcycles in front of the chasing groups as well, and I don't think the motorcycle for the leader is specially marked.
- TomK32 5y ago
  Even with radio, the breakouts might feel confident with the lead but not realize yet that the poursuivants have stepped up their speed.
freefal 5y ago
The big difference between typical pro races and the Olympics is that in the Olympics the riders don’t race with radios, which made this situation possible. In a typical pro race, the team director would be telling his riders there is still someone up the road.
iainmerrick 5y ago
Not saying she shouldn't had won, but when nobody is pursuing you, it is much easier to win. She certainly benefited from a mistake by the other competitors, but “much easier” is surely a big exaggeration. You could equally well say it’s much harder to win the race when you’re out by yourself, with nobody to chase, nobody to set the pace, and no pack to draft with. If she hadn’t cycled the race of her life, she would have been caught.
- bandyaboot 5y ago
  I don’t think “much easier” is an exaggeration at all. It is hard to win with no help as you say. Which is why there’s a good chance that she would have been caught if the people who did have help knew there was someone they needed to catch. That being said, good on her for sneaking away getting out in front unnoticed. It’s not always just about pure ability.
  - eCa 5y ago
    > sneaking away getting out in front unnoticed They knew she was in the early breakaway, they just assumed she had been caught.
    - lmilcin 5y ago
      Let's just say, and I know this from experience as amateur runner, when you ride an olympic effort you are probably not the best at counting and remembering things.
      - varjag 5y ago
        They were a group, it's no excuse. A better rider won.
lmilcin 5y ago
No, the rules are pretty simple. The one who manages to first cross the finish line wins. Everybody knows the rules. The problem is it is not a very simple sport and there is some game theory involved. Riding as fast as possible is not the best strategy, actually it is pretty poor one. The better strategy comes from understanding you don't need to win by a lot, winning by 1s is the same as winning by 10 minutes. Also riding alone or at the front costs a lot more effort than riding behind somebody. Actually, riding at the same speed at the front might be max effort and in the pack might be almost coasting. Together, this means you may have a very valid strategy to try to preserve energy (ie. keep with the pack) and count on your better ability to sprint at the end to get ahead of competitors. That of course as long as you believe there is nobody running away. At the extreme of effort, very small differences of effort can have very large effects on your body. If you look at it, a difference of tempo to run a 5k and 10k is very small. The current world records for 5k is 12:35.36 and 10k is 26:11.00. If you look at difference, 5k is 151s/km while 10k is 156s/km, just 5s or 3% slower. And yet that minute difference lets you run twice as far.
- hinkley 5y ago
  In professional cycling the Ride as Hard as You Can people are necessary but often don’t achieve any real rank on the team. They might not even finish a tour, either having not budgeted enough for the late stages, or being so new that they can’t understand how tired they’re gonna be later. Their claim to fame may be limited to being on the top team, it might be being on a top 5 team. If you’re lucky you team may place several people in the top 10. If you’re their hedge against the captain being injured, that might even be your name in seventh place. Lemond is famous in small part for being number #2 to Bernard Hinault and feeling it should have been him on the podium. But Lemond is the classic case of the unreliable captain. He was like a race horse. On a good day he was like the wind. But a stiff breeze could lay him up. He lamented the Hinault situation but illness stopped him from winning two others. And then that goddamned duck hunting trip… (I met him a few years later, he did a signing at a bike shop owned by a friend… who he as going to go duck hunting with the next day. I so wanted to ask him why he was crazy.) I never felt he had the sort of lieutenants that Armstrong enjoyed, the way he was to Hinault. I’m racking my brain trying to remember who was on Delgado’s team and coming up completely blank. But I think that just proves my point.
rocqua 5y ago
Consider what happened in mens racing. When there is someone ahead, you also get hesitation. No one wants to expend the effort to catch them. Everyone hopes that someone else will put in that effort. It's a classic game theoretical 'tragedy of the commons'. The same could have happened here. The dutch riders were all riding for themselves. The other riders would probably have looked to the favorites to close the gap.

by polote 5y ago

zucker42 5y ago

Tactics are as important as strength in cycling. The strongest person doesn't always win.

Denvercoder9 5y ago

The road race at the Olympics is somewhat of an outlier in cycling. It uses national teams as opposed to commerical teams, so riders ride with unfamilar teammates, and in this case the biggest favorites were actually teammates. It also bans radios, so there's no direct communication between the coaches and the riders possible.

ossusermivami 5y ago
world/european championship has the same national structure as the olympics, the radios are present in those races, so in that way the olympics is unique.
jessaustin 5y ago
I didn't see this race yet, and although I enjoy watching it I'm no expert on road cycling. However, ISTR that in every televised race there is a particular motorcycle that stays with the lead rider(s). If a racer thinks she's on the front and doesn't see that motorcycle around somewhere, shouldn't she reconsider her position? Also the racers who had been on the breakaway and got caught knew she was still up there, but they might not have cared to tell anyone about it.
- Denvercoder9 5y ago
  There's usually motorcycles in front of the chasing groups as well, and I don't think the motorcycle for the leader is specially marked.
TomK32 5y ago
Even with radio, the breakouts might feel confident with the lead but not realize yet that the poursuivants have stepped up their speed.

freefal 5y ago

The big difference between typical pro races and the Olympics is that in the Olympics the riders don’t race with radios, which made this situation possible. In a typical pro race, the team director would be telling his riders there is still someone up the road.

iainmerrick 5y ago

Not saying she shouldn't had won, but when nobody is pursuing you, it is much easier to win. She certainly benefited from a mistake by the other competitors, but “much easier” is surely a big exaggeration. You could equally well say it’s much harder to win the race when you’re out by yourself, with nobody to chase, nobody to set the pace, and no pack to draft with. If she hadn’t cycled the race of her life, she would have been caught.

bandyaboot 5y ago
I don’t think “much easier” is an exaggeration at all. It is hard to win with no help as you say. Which is why there’s a good chance that she would have been caught if the people who did have help knew there was someone they needed to catch. That being said, good on her for sneaking away getting out in front unnoticed. It’s not always just about pure ability.
- eCa 5y ago
  > sneaking away getting out in front unnoticed They knew she was in the early breakaway, they just assumed she had been caught.
  - lmilcin 5y ago
    Let's just say, and I know this from experience as amateur runner, when you ride an olympic effort you are probably not the best at counting and remembering things.
    - varjag 5y ago
      They were a group, it's no excuse. A better rider won.

lmilcin 5y ago

No, the rules are pretty simple. The one who manages to first cross the finish line wins. Everybody knows the rules. The problem is it is not a very simple sport and there is some game theory involved. Riding as fast as possible is not the best strategy, actually it is pretty poor one. The better strategy comes from understanding you don't need to win by a lot, winning by 1s is the same as winning by 10 minutes. Also riding alone or at the front costs a lot more effort than riding behind somebody. Actually, riding at the same speed at the front might be max effort and in the pack might be almost coasting. Together, this means you may have a very valid strategy to try to preserve energy (ie. keep with the pack) and count on your better ability to sprint at the end to get ahead of competitors. That of course as long as you believe there is nobody running away. At the extreme of effort, very small differences of effort can have very large effects on your body. If you look at it, a difference of tempo to run a 5k and 10k is very small. The current world records for 5k is 12:35.36 and 10k is 26:11.00. If you look at difference, 5k is 151s/km while 10k is 156s/km, just 5s or 3% slower. And yet that minute difference lets you run twice as far.

hinkley 5y ago
In professional cycling the Ride as Hard as You Can people are necessary but often don’t achieve any real rank on the team. They might not even finish a tour, either having not budgeted enough for the late stages, or being so new that they can’t understand how tired they’re gonna be later. Their claim to fame may be limited to being on the top team, it might be being on a top 5 team. If you’re lucky you team may place several people in the top 10. If you’re their hedge against the captain being injured, that might even be your name in seventh place. Lemond is famous in small part for being number #2 to Bernard Hinault and feeling it should have been him on the podium. But Lemond is the classic case of the unreliable captain. He was like a race horse. On a good day he was like the wind. But a stiff breeze could lay him up. He lamented the Hinault situation but illness stopped him from winning two others. And then that goddamned duck hunting trip… (I met him a few years later, he did a signing at a bike shop owned by a friend… who he as going to go duck hunting with the next day. I so wanted to ask him why he was crazy.) I never felt he had the sort of lieutenants that Armstrong enjoyed, the way he was to Hinault. I’m racking my brain trying to remember who was on Delgado’s team and coming up completely blank. But I think that just proves my point.

rocqua 5y ago

Consider what happened in mens racing. When there is someone ahead, you also get hesitation. No one wants to expend the effort to catch them. Everyone hopes that someone else will put in that effort. It's a classic game theoretical 'tragedy of the commons'. The same could have happened here. The dutch riders were all riding for themselves. The other riders would probably have looked to the favorites to close the gap.