4 ms·

I think if you're going to do an analysis of military strength, you have to do it in context of the political system that produces it. If your society results i

I think if you're going to do an analysis of military strength, you have to do it in context of the political system that produces it. If your society results in supersoldiers, but also causes you to regularly fail at diplomacy and end up outnumbered in wars which you end up losing, I wouldn't say that your military record is successful.

kleton 5y ago
They won the Peloponessian war (plenty of diplomacy and coalition building) and remained dominant until 371, which was the first war they lost. It was a pretty respectable record.
- dmix 5y ago
  I’m not seeing much connection to North Korea here. They have awful diplomacy, no real coalitions (besides China which is more of a complete one sided economic dependency and a constant source of trouble), a poor military track record besides perfecting sabre rattling and a single small US ship from the 1950s as their most prominent war prize, no one is trying to imitate them, they rely heavily on raw numbers over ability in a defensive posture built up over generations, etc. I’m trying to think of where the analogies begin…
  - b0rsuk 5y ago
    Brutal dictatorship. 90% of population living in poverty (The Helots in Sparta were hunted for sport by Spartiates, particularly as a coming of age ritual).
    - birdyrooster 5y ago
      Did they kidnap foreigners to do research or translation?
      - danielheath 5y ago
        AFAIK, At that point in history “kidnap foreigners for their labour” was a feature of every settlement over a few hundred people in size.
kbenson 5y ago
But this isn't really an analysis of military strength as much as one of unit strength, if I understand what's being presented. The meme isn't that Sparta was awesome, the meme is that spartan soldiers and units are awesome. I don't think most people think that a society that turns it's children out on the street to fend for themselves to toughen the ones that survive is good or worth any awe, but that doesn't mean that people can't look at the end result and think one specific aspect is worth respect.

kleton 5y ago

They won the Peloponessian war (plenty of diplomacy and coalition building) and remained dominant until 371, which was the first war they lost. It was a pretty respectable record.

dmix 5y ago
I’m not seeing much connection to North Korea here. They have awful diplomacy, no real coalitions (besides China which is more of a complete one sided economic dependency and a constant source of trouble), a poor military track record besides perfecting sabre rattling and a single small US ship from the 1950s as their most prominent war prize, no one is trying to imitate them, they rely heavily on raw numbers over ability in a defensive posture built up over generations, etc. I’m trying to think of where the analogies begin…
- b0rsuk 5y ago
  Brutal dictatorship. 90% of population living in poverty (The Helots in Sparta were hunted for sport by Spartiates, particularly as a coming of age ritual).
  - birdyrooster 5y ago
    Did they kidnap foreigners to do research or translation?
    - danielheath 5y ago
      AFAIK, At that point in history “kidnap foreigners for their labour” was a feature of every settlement over a few hundred people in size.

kbenson 5y ago

But this isn't really an analysis of military strength as much as one of unit strength, if I understand what's being presented. The meme isn't that Sparta was awesome, the meme is that spartan soldiers and units are awesome. I don't think most people think that a society that turns it's children out on the street to fend for themselves to toughen the ones that survive is good or worth any awe, but that doesn't mean that people can't look at the end result and think one specific aspect is worth respect.