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Mate, you are taking this too personal. your account here won't survive long like that. The "smearing foss" comment wasn't targeting you. You are just wrong ab

by onli 5y ago

Mate, you are taking this too personal. your account here won't survive long like that. The "smearing foss" comment wasn't targeting you. You are just wrong about the usability and compatibility. Especially compatibility is the strong suit of FOSS software in general and Linux specifically. There is broader hardware and software support. It's a fact, get over it. Usability always depends on the context and task, your general statement is bs - and it clashes with the comments you got of novice users working very well with Linux. Usability is defined in a DIN ISO norm, have a look at that before using it for arguments. Your comment is too long to go into the details, but I'll response in short to the main points: 1. No, Bash is not the most common interface, though I like it. It has to be used for the rare edge case, everything else can be done with GUIs. If your impression is otherwise you are not using mainstream distros nor are you doing regular tasks. Use Gnome or KDE on Ubuntu and stop distro hopping. 2. I'm playing exclusively on Linux since Proton got introduced, though I even used Linux for games before that. I'm okay with the occasional game not working, as Windows was vastly more cumbersome to keep in a working state, plus the many games that did not work there will also not be forgotten by me. 3. Void Linux is my current choice. I was a supporter in a Ubuntu forum and used that for many years, and still for the dayjob. I did use Funtoo for a while in between.

deltaonefour 5y ago
>Mate, you are taking this too personal. your account here won't survive long like that. The "smearing foss" comment wasn't targeting you. If it's not targeting me. Who is it targeting, "Mate?" Clearly it was targeting me, as you're REPLYING to me. Let's be honest here, You were attempting to "smear" me, but now you're back pedaling. Play it safe, don't even use the word "smear." No one is doing that here, it's just opinions and discussion. Keep it that way. >You are just wrong about the usability and compatibility. Especially compatibility is the strong suit of FOSS software in general and Linux specifically. There is broader hardware and software support. It's a fact, get over it. Nah I'm totally right. FOSS is less compatible with most hardware. The "official broad support" isn't even the the measuring stick here. It's actual hardware crashes and bugs. >1. No, Bash is not the most common interface, though I like it. It has to be used for the rare edge case, everything else can be done with GUIs. If your impression is otherwise you are not using mainstream distros nor are you doing regular tasks. Use Gnome or KDE on Ubuntu and stop distro hopping. "Mate," my impression encompasses gnome and KDE on Ubuntu as well as non mainstream distros, so I know my shit. Bash is 100% the most common interface, even on ubuntu. Any time you want to configure your operating system you will touch the CLI. Applications promote it, tutorials promote it, if you aren't using it I'm not sure what reality you're living in. If you're thinking of the world as if it's Grandmas using the browser vs. Programmers, then yes, grandmas using the browser have everything they need with ubuntu without touching the CLI. However, there are advanced users of computing outside of the programming world. 3D modelling software, audio production, Network Administration... to get even these things to work right most of these people will indeed touch the CLI. >2. I'm playing exclusively on Linux since Proton got introduced, though I even used Linux for games before that. I'm okay with the occasional game not working, as Windows was vastly more cumbersome to keep in a working state, plus the many games that did not work there will also not be forgotten by me. I'm a hardcore gamer so I have over 100 games in my steam library. I have a linux dell laptop with a quadro card. Only low fidelity games work; and certain games trigger the OS to restart. Running windows this never happens. Not even referring to proton. Just talking about games compiled to target linux. >3. Void Linux is my current choice. I was a supporter in a Ubuntu forum and used that for many years, and still for the dayjob. I did use Funtoo for a while in between. Try tinkering with NixOS or arch. You will have a better view of compatibility issues that linux suffers from. Ironically the fact that "choices" for distros exist and the fact that you have to pick the "right" OS for the right perspective is a big usability issue in itself.
- onli 5y ago
  Okay, that's wasted time, and your comment is inappropriate. So in very short and as a last comment: > I'm a hardcore gamer so I have over 100 games in my steam library. How hardcore^^ 358 are in mine, + many more GOG and Humble Bundle games + hundreds on CD/DVD I probably will never play again. > Only low fidelity games work; and certain games trigger the OS to restart. Linux is around equally strong in gpu driver performance. There are differences ofc, but if game performance is vastly different for you, then your Dell laptop might not be using the Nvidia gpu. Proton is not a factor here, its performance impact is minimal (and it can be faster to run the Windows versions of games with Proton than the Linux version natively). > Try tinkering with NixOS or arch. If you tinker don't be surprised if the result is tinkery. > the fact that you have to pick the "right" OS for the right perspective is a big usability issue in itself. It's not. You do not know what usability is.
  - deltaonefour 5y ago
    >Okay, that's wasted time, and your comment is inappropriate. So in very short and as a last comment: Your initial comment accused me of smearing FOSS. It's inconsiderate and a literal lie. I would say that's the most inappropriate thing that's occurred in this thread. >How hardcore^^ 358 are in mine, + many more GOG and Humble Bundle games + hundreds on CD/DVD I probably will never play again. 365. and Gog. We're pretty much the same in terms of amount of games. If you have that many games you should know absolutely there are problems. Maybe your hardware configuration just happens to be common and compatible. I use a quadro nvidia card which is not the traditional GeForce stuff. Both of our use cases are valid but you have to combine our use cases to form a holistic broad spectrum view. My use case is an indication of compatibility problems, likely with quadro. This doesn't happen with windows. >If you tinker don't be surprised if the result is tinkery. When you tinker you understand the internals more. When you understand the internals more you better understand the issues. I've used ubuntu AND tinkered with NixOS. So I have broader experience than you. >It's not. You do not know what usability is. Part of my Job description is UI design. I'm a full stack engineer from the front (browser based UI's and product design) all the way to C++ and embedded systems on the back end. Usability is my Job but also hardcore systems development. Most full stack devs stop at the application layer so I would say because someone pays me to know what usability is, I pretty much know it quite well. Lack of choice is a usability feature, Apple employs this aspect heavily by restricting hardware options; it's a big part of why apple software is perceived to be very robust. Another big part of usability is also perception. The actual capability of a product contributes less to usability than the perception of the capability of the product. Apple again uses this strategy big time.

by onli 5y ago

deltaonefour 5y ago

>Mate, you are taking this too personal. your account here won't survive long like that. The "smearing foss" comment wasn't targeting you. If it's not targeting me. Who is it targeting, "Mate?" Clearly it was targeting me, as you're REPLYING to me. Let's be honest here, You were attempting to "smear" me, but now you're back pedaling. Play it safe, don't even use the word "smear." No one is doing that here, it's just opinions and discussion. Keep it that way. >You are just wrong about the usability and compatibility. Especially compatibility is the strong suit of FOSS software in general and Linux specifically. There is broader hardware and software support. It's a fact, get over it. Nah I'm totally right. FOSS is less compatible with most hardware. The "official broad support" isn't even the the measuring stick here. It's actual hardware crashes and bugs. >1. No, Bash is not the most common interface, though I like it. It has to be used for the rare edge case, everything else can be done with GUIs. If your impression is otherwise you are not using mainstream distros nor are you doing regular tasks. Use Gnome or KDE on Ubuntu and stop distro hopping. "Mate," my impression encompasses gnome and KDE on Ubuntu as well as non mainstream distros, so I know my shit. Bash is 100% the most common interface, even on ubuntu. Any time you want to configure your operating system you will touch the CLI. Applications promote it, tutorials promote it, if you aren't using it I'm not sure what reality you're living in. If you're thinking of the world as if it's Grandmas using the browser vs. Programmers, then yes, grandmas using the browser have everything they need with ubuntu without touching the CLI. However, there are advanced users of computing outside of the programming world. 3D modelling software, audio production, Network Administration... to get even these things to work right most of these people will indeed touch the CLI. >2. I'm playing exclusively on Linux since Proton got introduced, though I even used Linux for games before that. I'm okay with the occasional game not working, as Windows was vastly more cumbersome to keep in a working state, plus the many games that did not work there will also not be forgotten by me. I'm a hardcore gamer so I have over 100 games in my steam library. I have a linux dell laptop with a quadro card. Only low fidelity games work; and certain games trigger the OS to restart. Running windows this never happens. Not even referring to proton. Just talking about games compiled to target linux. >3. Void Linux is my current choice. I was a supporter in a Ubuntu forum and used that for many years, and still for the dayjob. I did use Funtoo for a while in between. Try tinkering with NixOS or arch. You will have a better view of compatibility issues that linux suffers from. Ironically the fact that "choices" for distros exist and the fact that you have to pick the "right" OS for the right perspective is a big usability issue in itself.

onli 5y ago
Okay, that's wasted time, and your comment is inappropriate. So in very short and as a last comment: > I'm a hardcore gamer so I have over 100 games in my steam library. How hardcore^^ 358 are in mine, + many more GOG and Humble Bundle games + hundreds on CD/DVD I probably will never play again. > Only low fidelity games work; and certain games trigger the OS to restart. Linux is around equally strong in gpu driver performance. There are differences ofc, but if game performance is vastly different for you, then your Dell laptop might not be using the Nvidia gpu. Proton is not a factor here, its performance impact is minimal (and it can be faster to run the Windows versions of games with Proton than the Linux version natively). > Try tinkering with NixOS or arch. If you tinker don't be surprised if the result is tinkery. > the fact that you have to pick the "right" OS for the right perspective is a big usability issue in itself. It's not. You do not know what usability is.
- deltaonefour 5y ago
  >Okay, that's wasted time, and your comment is inappropriate. So in very short and as a last comment: Your initial comment accused me of smearing FOSS. It's inconsiderate and a literal lie. I would say that's the most inappropriate thing that's occurred in this thread. >How hardcore^^ 358 are in mine, + many more GOG and Humble Bundle games + hundreds on CD/DVD I probably will never play again. 365. and Gog. We're pretty much the same in terms of amount of games. If you have that many games you should know absolutely there are problems. Maybe your hardware configuration just happens to be common and compatible. I use a quadro nvidia card which is not the traditional GeForce stuff. Both of our use cases are valid but you have to combine our use cases to form a holistic broad spectrum view. My use case is an indication of compatibility problems, likely with quadro. This doesn't happen with windows. >If you tinker don't be surprised if the result is tinkery. When you tinker you understand the internals more. When you understand the internals more you better understand the issues. I've used ubuntu AND tinkered with NixOS. So I have broader experience than you. >It's not. You do not know what usability is. Part of my Job description is UI design. I'm a full stack engineer from the front (browser based UI's and product design) all the way to C++ and embedded systems on the back end. Usability is my Job but also hardcore systems development. Most full stack devs stop at the application layer so I would say because someone pays me to know what usability is, I pretty much know it quite well. Lack of choice is a usability feature, Apple employs this aspect heavily by restricting hardware options; it's a big part of why apple software is perceived to be very robust. Another big part of usability is also perception. The actual capability of a product contributes less to usability than the perception of the capability of the product. Apple again uses this strategy big time.